S&W 586 vs Colt Python
- Thread starter jlundy46
- Start date
I really prefer the 586 for a working gun. The Colt is very nice, if it is of the correct vintage. However, the Python lockwork is somewhat fragile, and smiths who can work on Colt lockwork are a rare breed.
On the other hand, the 586 normally has a better trigger than most Pyhtons Ive shot, and is just as pretty, in my opnion. As for accuracy, its a wash, as both are very accurate guns. If it were me, Id hunt for a 586 pre lock, and be happy.
On the other hand, the 586 normally has a better trigger than most Pyhtons Ive shot, and is just as pretty, in my opnion. As for accuracy, its a wash, as both are very accurate guns. If it were me, Id hunt for a 586 pre lock, and be happy.
Where to begin? The 586 was S&W's response to the issues that arose with the K frame .357 magnums in the sixties and seventies. The K-frame magnums weren't meant to be used with a steady diet of magnum loads - even though there are many who state that they have used their Model 19's/65/13/66 without any trouble for years.
So Smith came out with the L-frame. A beefy forcing cone, improved lockwork,beefed up cylinder,the full length barrel lug for improved recoil absorption, but with a frame the size of the medium K frame. Also the L frame was Smith's effort to compete with the Python.
The Python has a beautiful action, but it does stack near the end of the movement. This is a feature of the older Colt design. The Colt design is more mechanically complex and requires a gunsmith who is very familiar with Colts to work on it. It is also said that the Colt design is superior for target shooting, but goes out of time more frequently then the S&W design. Which brings us back to the fact that there aren't many Colt gunsmiths left anymore.
The L frame was introduced in 1980 and with design changes for the .357 magnum.It incorporates almost fifty years of experience with the .357 magnum load - what the round will do to a handgun with steady use and it also took into account the shooters in the late seventies were shooting more then they were in the 30's-50's etc.
What I can learn from research is that the Python was originally intended to be a 38 special target revolver. The changeover to the magnum was a last minute type of thing. Some say that the King Cobra was Colt's tacit admission that the Python wasn't designed for a steady diet of magnum loads becasue that model will handle the round. Incidentally the Python was introduced in the mid-fifties.
So the answer to your question? Well the Pythons are expensive and no longer in production. Parts are scarce as are Colt gunsmiths, but they are beautiful handguns.
The 586 is also well made and one of my personal favorites. It was intended to be a duty revolver and it shows. They are also more affordable, parts are common and there are many more gunsmiths who know how to work on them.But they aren't a Python.
good luck.
So Smith came out with the L-frame. A beefy forcing cone, improved lockwork,beefed up cylinder,the full length barrel lug for improved recoil absorption, but with a frame the size of the medium K frame. Also the L frame was Smith's effort to compete with the Python.
The Python has a beautiful action, but it does stack near the end of the movement. This is a feature of the older Colt design. The Colt design is more mechanically complex and requires a gunsmith who is very familiar with Colts to work on it. It is also said that the Colt design is superior for target shooting, but goes out of time more frequently then the S&W design. Which brings us back to the fact that there aren't many Colt gunsmiths left anymore.
The L frame was introduced in 1980 and with design changes for the .357 magnum.It incorporates almost fifty years of experience with the .357 magnum load - what the round will do to a handgun with steady use and it also took into account the shooters in the late seventies were shooting more then they were in the 30's-50's etc.
What I can learn from research is that the Python was originally intended to be a 38 special target revolver. The changeover to the magnum was a last minute type of thing. Some say that the King Cobra was Colt's tacit admission that the Python wasn't designed for a steady diet of magnum loads becasue that model will handle the round. Incidentally the Python was introduced in the mid-fifties.
So the answer to your question? Well the Pythons are expensive and no longer in production. Parts are scarce as are Colt gunsmiths, but they are beautiful handguns.
The 586 is also well made and one of my personal favorites. It was intended to be a duty revolver and it shows. They are also more affordable, parts are common and there are many more gunsmiths who know how to work on them.But they aren't a Python.
good luck.
Baba Louie
New member
Also remember that should you actually be forced to use your carry piece in self defense, it'll probably sit, uncleaned, in an evidence locker/warehouse for years... if not forever (or be destroyed by a zealous administration or stolen, er... borrowed by nefarious minded individuals who work nearby).
Thus, I'd choose the 586/686 format.
I would buy the cheaper format, spend the balance on ammo, gear and training for my carry piece if I were to make this decision. (and I have)
Thus, I'd choose the 586/686 format.
I would buy the cheaper format, spend the balance on ammo, gear and training for my carry piece if I were to make this decision. (and I have)
Jim Watson
New member
I love my Pythons, but the S&W costs less and can now be given action jobs equal to Colts of old.
I would not want either for daily carry, those guns are heavy. It would be a K-smith and just accept the wear and tear of magnums.
I would not want either for daily carry, those guns are heavy. It would be a K-smith and just accept the wear and tear of magnums.
Both
I suppose if you have bucks you could get both, and consider them for different purposes. Like they said, the Colt is a masterpiece of the gun makers art, universally admired except by some contrary cranks, and a pleasure to shoot at targets with milder loads or even 38's. Like a Rolex, it may need more maintenance to keep it running perfectly if shot alot, but it is an investment and should be cared for properly, as it will not lose value at all over time.(SOmewhat better than a ROlex in that regard)The Smith is probably more rugged and suited for constant carry or defense duty. Lot easier to work on and may not need as much maintenance anyway. Sort of like a high quality working pump versus a refined hi grade expensive trap gun that you can enjoy but would never take out banging around in the woods. Not that the Colt would fall flat as a defense gun. You just don't want to get it scratched up, holster wear or rattly loose unless money means nothing to you. I have seen enough clapped out expensive guns to think that some don't care.
I suppose if you have bucks you could get both, and consider them for different purposes. Like they said, the Colt is a masterpiece of the gun makers art, universally admired except by some contrary cranks, and a pleasure to shoot at targets with milder loads or even 38's. Like a Rolex, it may need more maintenance to keep it running perfectly if shot alot, but it is an investment and should be cared for properly, as it will not lose value at all over time.(SOmewhat better than a ROlex in that regard)The Smith is probably more rugged and suited for constant carry or defense duty. Lot easier to work on and may not need as much maintenance anyway. Sort of like a high quality working pump versus a refined hi grade expensive trap gun that you can enjoy but would never take out banging around in the woods. Not that the Colt would fall flat as a defense gun. You just don't want to get it scratched up, holster wear or rattly loose unless money means nothing to you. I have seen enough clapped out expensive guns to think that some don't care.
That's not exactly true. K-frames weren't meant to handle a steady diet of 125 grain magnums at the high veloctities (like 1600 fps high velocities) that they were loaded to at that time. The heavy loaded 125 grain bullets tend to cause flame cutting of the topstrap, and they also place added stress on the cylinder. Modern 125 grain rounds, however, should be no problem. Newer powders give better performance with less stress on the gun, and .357 ammunition is loaded lighter than it was 30-40 years ago. Now, that being said, I'll direct you to the buffalo bore ammunition website here where they seem to think that their 125 grain bullets @ 1700 fps are perfectly fine on any .357 magnum that is in good working condition.
But if you think that you know how ammunition effects weapons more then a company who makes and tests high performance ammunition to be sure it's safe in firearms and won't destroy them or the user then believe what you want to believe.
Here is the direct quote from their website
Thanks for all the information and advice. The Python is a nice looking piece, but I think I will stick with the S&W 586. I have a pre-lock model and it has a nice feel and looks good too. I have a Trooper MK III six inch which I really like and is my best shooter. The Trooper MK III was my first duty weapon and has always been my favorite. I did carry a Detective Special off duty for a while but I prefer a more substantial carry weapon. I may look for a four inch Trooper at some point. Thanks again for the useful input.
John
John
NOw you tell us
Well since you have the Trooper, you have some idea of how a Colt action works and handles, then. Those are more comparable in concept to a K/L frame as it was designed for everyday carry as a working gun. I am sure it is a nice and accurate revolver. Since it it a Colt, it also will increase in value, I suspect, so that would be a keeper. I have K frames and J frames but no larger frame Smiths right now. I don't care, I am not gonna take them to the range and fire 100 rds of hot ammo thru them anyway. Not gonna wear them out from firing. I can handload all levels of power and can make loads in magnum cases about 38 power or a little more without stressing the gun at all. The L frame can take alot more, but firing downloaded rounds is alot more pleasurable for an extended range session. But I do keep the hot stuff on hand for contingencies. Got a full box of the old Federal 125's that throw the big fireball and are effective. Also some Winchester Silvertips that are a bit more pleasant to shoot with a good stopping rep, and low flash powder.
Well since you have the Trooper, you have some idea of how a Colt action works and handles, then. Those are more comparable in concept to a K/L frame as it was designed for everyday carry as a working gun. I am sure it is a nice and accurate revolver. Since it it a Colt, it also will increase in value, I suspect, so that would be a keeper. I have K frames and J frames but no larger frame Smiths right now. I don't care, I am not gonna take them to the range and fire 100 rds of hot ammo thru them anyway. Not gonna wear them out from firing. I can handload all levels of power and can make loads in magnum cases about 38 power or a little more without stressing the gun at all. The L frame can take alot more, but firing downloaded rounds is alot more pleasurable for an extended range session. But I do keep the hot stuff on hand for contingencies. Got a full box of the old Federal 125's that throw the big fireball and are effective. Also some Winchester Silvertips that are a bit more pleasant to shoot with a good stopping rep, and low flash powder.
The Python was originally developed to be a .357 magnum. It evolved from the Colt "357" magnum which was Colt's first medium frame .357 magnum. The Officers Models were the .38 spl target revolvers (and had been for decades) and they were built on the same size frame as the Python. The Python never had any trouble with any of the .357 magnum loadings. Where a Python does have trouble is with fast double action shooting. The heavy cylinder pounds the small parts and cause it to lose it's timing. The old style Colt action was expensive to build due to the needed hand labor. The Trooper MkIII was Colt's answer to build an easier to produce action. The King Cobra was just the last in the line of evolution of the Trooper.
Parts aren't that hard to find for the Python as it shares the action of several Colt revolvers. Finding qualified gunsmiths to work on them is the problem today.
For a service revolver I would choose the M586 over the Python (and I'm a diehard Colt fan) as it's much easier to get repaired if needed. It is also better suited for the action game shooting of today. The Python is a better Bullseye revolver.
My S&W 586 is a good shooter and I like the look of the full length ejector rod shroud. The Trooper MK III is a tad smaller and I shoot better with it so I will look for a four inch Trooper MK III to alternate as a carry weapon with my 586. I just had my six inch Trooper MK III refinished by Colt and they did a superb job. I have a set pristine traditional target grips and a set of the newer rounded Colt grips. I will see which feel best for shooting, although I like the looks of the traditional grips over the newer ones. Wood and metal, as a revolver was meant to be
John
John
Majic
I've got an article by John Taffin from a few years ago in which he stated that the Python was originally developed as a 38 special target handgun, but when Colt realized what they had they changed and went to .357 magnum.The same article also stated that originally the under lug was actually hollow. So I didn't make this up. If the info is incorrect then I stand corrected. Thank you.
I also have more then a few article that say repeatedly that Bill Jordan intended the Model 19 to be loaded with .357 magnums for a duty load but to be shot in training with 38 specials. This was the philosophy in the 50's. I know that there have been changes in training doctrine since then, but once the idea set in that the forcing cones on the .357 magnum K frames would crack through extensive use of magnum loads Smith couldn't beat it. Plus the forcing cone was thinner on the botton in order to ensure that the longer magnum cylinder would close. Sort of a half - moon I guess. The forcing cone of the L frame is a complete full cylinder, or circle if you like.
Dave0520
I'm well aware of buffalo bore ammo - I live in idaho after all. You didn't have to get snippy.
The original poster asked a question. I did my best to answer him and give him background.
I've got an article by John Taffin from a few years ago in which he stated that the Python was originally developed as a 38 special target handgun, but when Colt realized what they had they changed and went to .357 magnum.The same article also stated that originally the under lug was actually hollow. So I didn't make this up. If the info is incorrect then I stand corrected. Thank you.
I also have more then a few article that say repeatedly that Bill Jordan intended the Model 19 to be loaded with .357 magnums for a duty load but to be shot in training with 38 specials. This was the philosophy in the 50's. I know that there have been changes in training doctrine since then, but once the idea set in that the forcing cones on the .357 magnum K frames would crack through extensive use of magnum loads Smith couldn't beat it. Plus the forcing cone was thinner on the botton in order to ensure that the longer magnum cylinder would close. Sort of a half - moon I guess. The forcing cone of the L frame is a complete full cylinder, or circle if you like.
Dave0520
I'm well aware of buffalo bore ammo - I live in idaho after all. You didn't have to get snippy.
The original poster asked a question. I did my best to answer him and give him background.
Hotdog1911
New member
Now just hold on a minute, Doc.
We need to know alittle more about you before dispensing with all this firearms advice. How often do you carry, how often do you actully shoot and if so are you using full 58 thousand pounds of pressure 357 'mag-da-lum' rounds-or just 38's? Do you go out into the field and expose said equipment to the elements on a regular basis or are you the indoor type? Do you drive a BMW or a Ford? Pythons & Smiths each have their own charatiristics. The gun fits you; not you fitting the gun.
Since we are on the topic of revolvers in a semiauto world...are you limited to 38s & 357's? If not, take some time and shoot some 45acp and 44spl revolver. Take some real time. Run through a handful of drills and count it all up. You may be very surprised.
We need to know alittle more about you before dispensing with all this firearms advice. How often do you carry, how often do you actully shoot and if so are you using full 58 thousand pounds of pressure 357 'mag-da-lum' rounds-or just 38's? Do you go out into the field and expose said equipment to the elements on a regular basis or are you the indoor type? Do you drive a BMW or a Ford? Pythons & Smiths each have their own charatiristics. The gun fits you; not you fitting the gun.
Since we are on the topic of revolvers in a semiauto world...are you limited to 38s & 357's? If not, take some time and shoot some 45acp and 44spl revolver. Take some real time. Run through a handful of drills and count it all up. You may be very surprised.
My view:
Both are outstanding guns, but the 586 is for using and the Python is a collectors piece. And, if you plan to shoot some different stuff on it, keep in mind that the cylinder of the Python is shorter, not allowing you to use long bullets like 180gr., for exemple.
Regards,
Andre Tiba - Brazil
Both are outstanding guns, but the 586 is for using and the Python is a collectors piece. And, if you plan to shoot some different stuff on it, keep in mind that the cylinder of the Python is shorter, not allowing you to use long bullets like 180gr., for exemple.
Regards,
Andre Tiba - Brazil
Jeff,
I don't doubt that Mr Taffin said that, but all other Colt research says the Python evolved from the "357" and was always intended to be a .357 magnum. The Trooper and the "357" both came out at the same time. The Trooper being a service revolver (chambered in .22lr and .38 spl) and the "357" being a target revolver (having the hand tuned action and chambered in the newer cartridge that was gaining in popularity). Other than the tuned action the only difference in the 2 was the Trooper, like all other centerfire Colts, had the firing pin on the nose of the hammer. The "357" was the first to have the firing pin in the frame. The Python as you probably know has it's firing pin in the frame. Colt already dominated the .38 spl field and it's premium .357 magnum target revolver closely resembled it's service revolver. It was modified to make it a better shooter and to seperate it from the service revolver's look to be a true premium revolver like you can see the difference in a Shooting Master over a New Service or a S&W Reg Mag over the other N-frames.
I have a Python and a S&W 686 (stainless version of 586), both in 6 inch barrel. I agree with posters who are reluctant to expose the expensive Python to the rigors of holster carry. Mine is a safe queen that gets used about once a year at the range to shoot .38 specials in single action.
I think the 686/586 are much more practical for carry, and probably have a better double action trigger (no stacking) than the Python anyway. And you are more likely to use a defensive carry revolver in double action mode.
But if you want a .357 carry revolver, why not go to a K frame in a shorter barrel (2.5 or 3.0 inches) and take advantage of the lighter weight, round butt and shorter barrel for easier concealment? I use a S&W model 66 with 2.5 inch barrel for that, with bantam grips, and mainly practice with .38s in it, using the .357s only occasionally for familiarity and for actual carry. It's a lot easier to conceal than the L frame but still heavy enough to handle .357 recoil easily. Just don't use it for a .357 range gun.