Ruger P97 vs Para-Ord P12

[slojim]

One day I got tired of thinking what gun should I get, so I jumped up, went out the door, and hit the shops. Didn't find any of what I was really looking for, and ended up with a barely used P97DC. A few days later, I shot a Para P10, and I really liked it. Now a friend of a friend has a P12 (a pre-ban P10) with 200 rounds through it up for sale, asking $550. I'm thinking about selling the ruger. What can I expect to get for it (it has I would guess < 500 rounds through it, including the 100 I will shoot next weekend to make sure the ftf was indeed the greasy mags). Is $550 decent for the p12, with box and 2 12 rnd clips? Any one think it's not a good move? (I really like that P10, I would be much more comfortable with it in my car due to it's size and controls)
Thanks

note: no disparaging glock comments have been made, nor are my choices any attempt to say 9mm stinks, and your momma's not fat

 

[branrot]

I'm not sure what you're looking for (P10 or P12). I've got a P13.45, and I've been very happy with it. I've heard the same about the P12 and P14. However, posts from owners (and past owners) of the P10's claim that they jam a lot. Not sure about the price, but I remember paying around 600 for my stainless P13.45 with one 13 rounder (and coupon for 2 hi caps @ 50 each) new. Hope that helps.

 

[slojim]

the para I shot was a p-10, the gun I am considering buying is a p-12, with 2 12 rnd mags. At first I thought p-10 was just a post-ban name change thing, but I was apparently wrong. Anybody know what the significant differences are between the p-10 and p-12, other than capacity?

 

[aficionado]

the p10 is actually a different & smaller pistol than the p12. the grip & barrel are both about 1/2" shorter on the P10. of course, since the ban, p12's ship with 10 round mags (like the p14's, etc), but that doesn't make em a p10

have fun!

 

[viesczy]

I have a P12 and a KPP944 (okay it's not the 97, but all Rugers look a like! ) and it is a tough job comparing those two.

One is a compact pistol to be carried about in a most secretive manner-P12.

The other is a full sized pistol-KP944, as are all Ruger P series.

I will say this about the Ruger 944 I own, it has never had a malf in 4 or 5 thousand rounds.

Personally I'd say go with the P12 because of size/concealability (that's what I use my P12 for) but if you are looking for more of a target/home defense pistol, the longer sight radius/greater size of the P97 would lend itself to a better choice.

I'd say keep the Ruger AND get the Para!

Derek

 

[krept]

I would definately say keep the Ruger, but if you just really, REALLY have to have the Para, grab it. If you have fired it, like it, and have had or heard of no malfunctions then it sounds like an OK deal.

 

[GregM]

Tell me what you want for the P97 and I may buy it. Email me!

GregM

 

[BobR]

I have a Para P14 and a Ruger P90, (see the big bullet trend here?) and I like both of them. I would carry my DE 50 but it is just to big to put in my pants...plus the powers that be have decreed a .45 as the max round size for concealed carry in this state.

The Ruger fit and finish is better than the Para, It is also DA with a decocker, while the Para is SA. The Para is a tiny bit larger in the grip than the Ruger, but the ruger is a pretty big handfull itself for only being a single stack.
It boils down to what you want it for, a P12 is a lot easier to conceal than the Ruger, but, if for home defense and just shooting occasionaly I would say stick with the Ruger and then start looking for a Para if you really wanted one. It is always the gun you get rid of to get another that you end up missing the most.

 

[slojim]

keep both! you guys just aren't helping me out with that! Oh well. I know how I operate, and I'm trying to avoid a large collection. Since it is so often hot here, I doubt I could conceal either very well most of the year, so for carry, the P12 has only a slight nod, I'll get something else for that. The P10 I shot was every bit as accurate as my P97, so for a house gun, the added length may be moot, and with the extra capacity, the nod again goes to the P12. Of course, I am not a the greatest shooter (yet ), so your accuracy may vary. The p12 should be easier to carry in the car. But I think as I only have one gun, I might keep the ruger, at least until I buy one more gun. My only issue with the p12, is it right that my choices are cocked and locked, or empty chamber? I know c&l is safe, but as a new guy with little experience, I'm not sure I'm ready to be comfortable with that. Strictly an emotional, not logical issue, that will probably fade in time.

 

[aficionado]

you might want to look for a p12 LDA. that's the relatively new double action version of the p12. the trigger is outstanding -- much lighter & smoother than a double action revolver. i can shoot it almost as well as a single action auto. it's dao only, so there's no difference between the first pull & the subsequent pulls. you can have all the other features of the p12 (size, capacity, etc) & carry with the hammer down.

of course, they are a little harder to find

 

[branrot]

BobR: What state do you live in that the legislature took it upon themselves to tell people not to carry anything over a .45??? That's just kind of funny. I guess they had a rash of people carrying Desert Eagle .50's and .475 Wildey Magnums, huh?

 

[slojim]

yep afficianado, that's just what I was thinking. That's the one I'd rather have, and I'd hate to spend $550 and think "yeah, it's nice, but I'd have been happier if...". The P12 in question is also not the material/finish I would prefer. So I'll keep the ruger for now and keep my eye out for the other guns I might really want.

 

[grapeshad]

Good decision on keeping the 97. I love mine and especially the price I paid...199 big ones....previous owner maybe fired a box of ammo thru it. Sights are great and makes a great pin gun Best buy in a .45 today IMO.

 

[Ironbarr]

ParaOrd 12.45 LDA Series ...

I don't know more than a hand-holding and some research about the 12.45 LDA, BUT, my CCW instructor recently bought one and I've searched for some mags to fit for him. Over the past few days - and some serious conversation with him -I've become interested in the LDA. Why? Well, one thing is the C&L of 1911 land, just not quite happy camper there.

The site for Para is http://www.paraord.com. Look for the LDA Series.

I like (1) the flush hammer - no drag; (2) safety disconnects the trigger; (3) lowered port beveled outward; (4) 10 rounds; (4) 3 dot sights.

Things I have reservations about: (1) Mag needs positive seating; (2) barrel bushing is keyed - difficult field strip; (3) cast slide; (4) recoil.

You're one up on me since you've fired a P12, I haven't. The 12.45 LDAs are priced here at $469 black/$479 stainless... you may try to deal it a bit.

My 2 cents. But I'm looking for the experience of others to get a better feel - see http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=58127

 

[aficionado]

ironbarr, i've shot my p12 a lot & here's my take on it:

recoil is not a problem at all. that's probably partly because the p12 weighs about 34 oz empty. i shoot full power premium 230gr hydrashocks, 230gr ball & haven't ever noticed any more recoil than i would expect from a full size 1911 (which in my opinion is pretty tame -- others might have a different idea about that )

field stripping is not hard at all for me. it's a little different than a normal 1911, tho. i don't use any sort of wrench at all; just press in the recoil spring retainer just enough to turn the bushing by hand. no problem at all. just make sure you turn it the right direction (that's counter clockwise about 1/8 turn).

you're right about the mag; it's kinda stiff if you are inserting it while the slide is in battery. that's not a problem at all at the range since i generally start with the slide locked back. the issue mainly crops up if you want to chamber one & then put a full mag in. it's stiff, but not a problem for me -- it's obvious when it's locked in.

one more thing to consider: you mention it has a 10 rd mag. of course it comes with one because of our current laws. however, if you buy one new, they come with a coupon to buy 1 or 2 12 rd mags for $50 each(at least they did last time i looked).

 

[Canine]

Reliability concerns

Just thought I'd chime in with my experience concerning Para Ord pistols. Some of the ones I shot were a joy to shoot but a good percentage were jam-o-matics. I would be careful to try the pistol out before buying (quality control seems to very a lot on Para-Ords). Good luck.

Canine