I ordered a Ruger 45 Colt / 45acp convertible Blackhawk because I like the idea of having the option of either ammo. I have never owned or shot a revolver with ammo for an auto-loader. I understand the concept of moon clips for the Smith double action revolvers with swing out cylinders, but how do single actions work with auto ammo. What keeps the cartridge from sliding up into the cylinder. I have never seen a 45 acp or 9mm cylinder, let alone inspected one. A picture of one would be appreciated if it would help explain how the cartridges are held in place without the rim like on the traditional revolver ammo (45Colt, 38Sp, 357mag). I know Ruger has been selling these convertibles for many years, but this this is my first experience with one. Thanks for any insight you may provide.
Ruger Convertibles
- Thread starter KMAX
- Start date
Right, here's how it works.
When you have the 45ACP cylinder in hand, hold it up to the light and look in from the rear. There's a "lip" machined into the inside edge of the chambers where the front edge of the 45ACP shell will go. That's how it headspaces...exactly the same as a semi-auto chamber
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Something else going on here. From that "lip" outwards there's a very, very long straight "throat". The bullet is going to travel through about 3/4" or so of tight "smoothbore" area, and it's going to accellerate STRONGLY within that section. When it finally clears that and crosses over to the barrel it'll be going pretty damn fast. Which isn't a problem in a big tough gun like that, but what it means is, you get a hell of a lot of bullet speed for the barrel length.
I've studied this because I'm converting a 357Mag New Vaquero to 9mmPara and the principles are all the same.
S&W has made 2" barrel factory snubbies in 9mm. When people measure the bullet speed out of them, they seem to spit rounds out about as fast as the same round would clear a 4" barrel Glock or the like. It's a very efficient setup. Accuracy is also surprisingly decent considering what's going on; the Ruger Blackhawks in 45ACP all seem to shoot quite well. Fortunately the optimum barrel spec between 45LC and 45ACP is the same, and Ruger barrels tend to be pretty good. You may find the 45ACP cylinder very useful overall.
Pro tip: use single-column 45ACP semi-auto mags (1911 or whatever) as speedloaders, thumbing rounds into the loading gate from the mag. It's not exactly "the cowboy way" but it works great.
When you have the 45ACP cylinder in hand, hold it up to the light and look in from the rear. There's a "lip" machined into the inside edge of the chambers where the front edge of the 45ACP shell will go. That's how it headspaces...exactly the same as a semi-auto chamber
.Something else going on here. From that "lip" outwards there's a very, very long straight "throat". The bullet is going to travel through about 3/4" or so of tight "smoothbore" area, and it's going to accellerate STRONGLY within that section. When it finally clears that and crosses over to the barrel it'll be going pretty damn fast. Which isn't a problem in a big tough gun like that, but what it means is, you get a hell of a lot of bullet speed for the barrel length.
I've studied this because I'm converting a 357Mag New Vaquero to 9mmPara and the principles are all the same.
S&W has made 2" barrel factory snubbies in 9mm. When people measure the bullet speed out of them, they seem to spit rounds out about as fast as the same round would clear a 4" barrel Glock or the like. It's a very efficient setup. Accuracy is also surprisingly decent considering what's going on; the Ruger Blackhawks in 45ACP all seem to shoot quite well. Fortunately the optimum barrel spec between 45LC and 45ACP is the same, and Ruger barrels tend to be pretty good. You may find the 45ACP cylinder very useful overall
.Pro tip: use single-column 45ACP semi-auto mags (1911 or whatever) as speedloaders, thumbing rounds into the loading gate from the mag
. It's not exactly "the cowboy way" but it works great.Thanks, Jim
When I was logging back on to check my post I told my wife "I hope Jim March responded to my post." Sure enough. Can count on you for info on revolvers. Thanks for the info. I wondered if that might not be the case but it was only speculation on my part. I will share this with the guy at the gun store who is fairly knowledgable but didn't know either. Thanks again.
357 mag to 9mm Para. Is there any discernable loss of accuracy in doing this (.357 to .355)? It would be a lot less expensive to shoot, I think.
When I was logging back on to check my post I told my wife "I hope Jim March responded to my post." Sure enough. Can count on you for info on revolvers. Thanks for the info. I wondered if that might not be the case but it was only speculation on my part. I will share this with the guy at the gun store who is fairly knowledgable but didn't know either. Thanks again.
357 mag to 9mm Para. Is there any discernable loss of accuracy in doing this (.357 to .355)? It would be a lot less expensive to shoot, I think.
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I have a 45 ACP cylinder for a Ruger. When I shoot lead bullets, it tends to get sticky getting the rounds to seat after shooting it a while. You realize it when you go to cock it and it hangs up. You get in the habit of making sure the cylinder turns freely after loading it before shooting it. I keep it around mostly for the ability to find ammo when travelling, rather than shooting it much. I load my own, and the 45 Colt doesn't have any of the issues the ACP cylinder does, its just simpler to use.
I had an old model Ruger that only had the ACP cylinder, it was stunningly accurate (and could have been as accurate with the Colt cylinder). In the 9mm from a 357, the bullet is undersize by a couple thousandths. It may hurt accuracy, it may not. Let us know how it works out.
I had an old model Ruger that only had the ACP cylinder, it was stunningly accurate (and could have been as accurate with the Colt cylinder). In the 9mm from a 357, the bullet is undersize by a couple thousandths. It may hurt accuracy, it may not. Let us know how it works out.
I have several .45 Colt NMBHs with .45 ACP cylinders. All the .45 Colt cylinders needed reaming and a couple of the .45 ACP cylinders needed reaming due to being excessively tight. These guns are now 12 to 14 yrs. old. Newer guns seem to be much better. All shoot very well now. I also had my .45 ACP cylinders trimmed to headspace .45 AR. I actually prefer to use AR cases because they seems to cycle a little more smoothly, and I use them in my S&W 625.
I also have a .357/9mm convertible. It is very accurate in .357 and pretty good in 9mm. I was a little surprised. It has .358” throats and something like .357” barrel, but it shoots CCI Blazer 9mm quite well. I like that.
I also have a .357/9mm convertible. It is very accurate in .357 and pretty good in 9mm. I was a little surprised. It has .358” throats and something like .357” barrel, but it shoots CCI Blazer 9mm quite well. I like that.
Bear River
New member
New Ruger revolvers with the "Warning" stamped on the bottom of the barrel have the new uniform chambers. Ruger started a new boring process where all chambers are cut at the same time.
I have a new Lipsey SS Combo 4 5/8" Ruger. The chamber throats are all a tight .452.
I have a new Lipsey SS Combo 4 5/8" Ruger. The chamber throats are all a tight .452.
I bought my first Ruger convertable (.45 Colt/.45ACP) in 1983. I bought it with the thought that I would be able to shoot my ACP ammo (I already had an auto pistol) without having to scrounge in the weeds to find my brass (I reload).
I made one small mistake. On the way home with the gun, I stopped at another place, and wound up buying a box of .45 Colt ammo. The mistake was firing the Colt ammo before firing any of the ACP! Wow! What fun! By comparison, firing the ACP ammo was a mere "pop". I don't think I've put 300 rnds of acp ammo through that gun in the nearly 30 years since! I became a die hard fan of the .45 Colt round.
In the big Ruger, the .45acp has very light recoil. It seems like a real "come down" after firing full house .45 Colt.
There is a lot of talk on the internet about how the new method of boring the cylinders of Rugers makes them more accurate. Can't say this is true, or not, but I can tell you that it gives the impression that the older Rugers are not accurate, and this is simply not true.
There may be individual Rugers that are not as accurate as others, but I have had several of the older guns, and they have all been either fairly or exceptionally accurate. My original 7.5" Blackhawk has 5 chambers that virtually all shoot in the same hole, and the sixth is very close. I think that's plenty good enough for me.
I made one small mistake. On the way home with the gun, I stopped at another place, and wound up buying a box of .45 Colt ammo. The mistake was firing the Colt ammo before firing any of the ACP! Wow! What fun! By comparison, firing the ACP ammo was a mere "pop". I don't think I've put 300 rnds of acp ammo through that gun in the nearly 30 years since! I became a die hard fan of the .45 Colt round.
In the big Ruger, the .45acp has very light recoil. It seems like a real "come down" after firing full house .45 Colt.
There is a lot of talk on the internet about how the new method of boring the cylinders of Rugers makes them more accurate. Can't say this is true, or not, but I can tell you that it gives the impression that the older Rugers are not accurate, and this is simply not true.
There may be individual Rugers that are not as accurate as others, but I have had several of the older guns, and they have all been either fairly or exceptionally accurate. My original 7.5" Blackhawk has 5 chambers that virtually all shoot in the same hole, and the sixth is very close. I think that's plenty good enough for me.
Lighter recoil?
I wondered about that. That might be a plus becausse I had planned on letting others shoot the gun that might be a little recoil shy. My wife is not much into shooting, but she might enjoy shooting this if it didn't kick too much. Also 45acp is cheaper to shoot a bunch of.
I wondered about that. That might be a plus becausse I had planned on letting others shoot the gun that might be a little recoil shy. My wife is not much into shooting, but she might enjoy shooting this if it didn't kick too much. Also 45acp is cheaper to shoot a bunch of.
I found a six-inch section of Douglas Premium rifle barrel in true 9mm (.355") on Fleabay for less than $20. SCORE! I'm threading it for the NewVaq and using that. I'm cutting it to 3.5". It was an unused leftover from somebody's carbine project.
I'm also doing something very weird: the barrel won't be screwed "tight into the frame" in the normal fashion. Instead the barrel muzzle is threaded and a gas cap in steel is screwed onto that, which in turn will push an outer "sleeve" backwards towards the frame. This will be a "muzzle tensioned" setup much like a Dan Wesson with screw-adjustable cylinder gap. There also won't be any characteristic bulge in the barrel where it screws into the frame. This is part of the secret to the accuracy of the Dan Wesson revolvers. This also means that in theory I could look around for another barrel section and set up a second barrel with a different length - like a Dan Wesson
.The outer sleeve is a section of good chrome 7/8ths steel off a 1980 Honda motorcycle handlebar
.Oh, and the reason I want it in 9mm?
To get the magazine feed system working.
Yeah. This is happening. If I can get the coil-tube mag concept working I might be able to get a 20rd mag plus five in the chamber (long story) which means it could finish a SASS stage without reloading...right up until they throw my butt out while laughing themselves silly...
To get the magazine feed system working.
Yeah. This is happening. If I can get the coil-tube mag concept working I might be able to get a 20rd mag plus five in the chamber (long story) which means it could finish a SASS stage without reloading...right up until they throw my butt out while laughing themselves silly...
jtmckinney
New member
Hope you enjoy yours as much as I enjoy mine. I reload and do shoot the Colt cylinder more than the ACP but the ACP cylinder does see action.
I have also been shooting 230 grain hard cast lead RN in front of a healthy charge of AA#9 in the 45 ACP. According to my chrony velocity is between 1200 and 1250 fps, feels like a mid load 45 Colt. These never get shot in my son's 1911. No evidence of leading but I have only shot 4 cylinders of this at any one time.
Jim March, thanks for the thought about the velocity gained in the "smoothbore" portion of the cylinder, something to think about. I have never heard it reported but is there any concern for damage to the rifling when the bullit contacts it at this velocity. Not trying to create a problem that doesn't exist but something I have wondered about.
Ruger only 45 Colt loads are fun to shoot but I found all I wanted in recoil before the maximum some sources say you can go. I will probably even back down a little more for the long term. Everything, even Ruber Blackhawk's have their mechanical endurance limit. I probably wouldn't have even considered this 30 years ago. I will also keep a few of the full power loads around for when the occasion calls for it.
Have a gread day!
James
I have also been shooting 230 grain hard cast lead RN in front of a healthy charge of AA#9 in the 45 ACP. According to my chrony velocity is between 1200 and 1250 fps, feels like a mid load 45 Colt. These never get shot in my son's 1911. No evidence of leading but I have only shot 4 cylinders of this at any one time.
Jim March, thanks for the thought about the velocity gained in the "smoothbore" portion of the cylinder, something to think about. I have never heard it reported but is there any concern for damage to the rifling when the bullit contacts it at this velocity. Not trying to create a problem that doesn't exist but something I have wondered about.
Ruger only 45 Colt loads are fun to shoot but I found all I wanted in recoil before the maximum some sources say you can go. I will probably even back down a little more for the long term. Everything, even Ruber Blackhawk's have their mechanical endurance limit. I probably wouldn't have even considered this 30 years ago. I will also keep a few of the full power loads around for when the occasion calls for it.
Have a gread day!
James
Bear River
New member
The Ruger .45 Combos are great guns. The ACP cylinder can be loaded with the .460 Rowland data. When using the revolver cylinder the .45 ACP case is fully supported in the chamber. There is no need to use the expensive Rowland brass in the Ruger ACP cylinder. The .460 Rowland loads give plenty of power with the cheap .45 ACP brass.
Great info.
Great info guys. Seems I have a lot to learn, which is good. I enjoy learning new stuff. Of course I will be reloading, so there's a lot to learn there. I know nothing of 460 Rowland, yet, or Ruger only loads.
Jim: When you said you were converting the Vaquero to 9mm you really meant converting, not just swapping cylinders. Sounds like a real project. I would be interested to see your progress along the way on this, if you would care to share your secrets with us.
Great info guys. Seems I have a lot to learn, which is good. I enjoy learning new stuff. Of course I will be reloading, so there's a lot to learn there. I know nothing of 460 Rowland, yet, or Ruger only loads.
Jim: When you said you were converting the Vaquero to 9mm you really meant converting, not just swapping cylinders. Sounds like a real project. I would be interested to see your progress along the way on this, if you would care to share your secrets with us.
Edward429451
Moderator
You got a 230 to 1250? That's awesome. Did you ever load any 255 swc in acp brass?
We read the same article. I'm chompin at the bit the bit to develop a 255 gr load in acp brass. It being a swc load would identify it as a Ruger only load and could not get mixed in with my 1911 ammo.
I have two of the Lipsey medium frame Flattop .45 Convertibles. Nice revolvers. I did still have to ream the throats to .4525 though. The throats were much better than my other .45 Colt revolvers.... Ruger is getting better! Note that I can not shoot Ruger Only Loads from these revolvers, but still can load up to 23,000psi or so... Which is plenty for me!
. Still searching for the 'perfect' .45 ACP load for my revolvers. Note I don't have a 1911, so no worry there when it comes down to 'hot', or to 'mild', and to long to short (OAL) .
You'll enjoy the new convertible. I tend to shoot a lot more .45 Colt through mine though.
I load 250g RNFP in my .45 ACP brass as then I don't have to adjust the sights when changing cylinders. Works for me
. Still searching for the 'perfect' .45 ACP load for my revolvers. Note I don't have a 1911, so no worry there when it comes down to 'hot', or to 'mild', and to long to short (OAL) .You'll enjoy the new convertible. I tend to shoot a lot more .45 Colt through mine though.
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Edward429451
Moderator
Those are some nice looking guns! New Vaquero sized and adj. sites.
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I haven't owned one of the .45 models but I did have one of the 9mm/.357 convertibles. I think I owned it at the same time as a S&W Model 547, if I'm remembering the number correctly. The S&W, a 4" barrel model, was not a convertible but I had a Model 13 that was exactly the same except for the caliber. In comparison, the 9mm in either gun was nothing, like shooting wadcutters. At least, that's the way I remember it. Maybe the 9mm was a little stronger than that.
I had no good reason for either of those revolvers but I did want to learn something about them, which I did. I'm sure the Model 547 was a much nicer gun to shoot in 9mm than in .357, if somewhat less effective but still more effective than .38 Special, supposedly.
One reason I've read for the .45 convertible was that factory .45 auto ammo is better than factory .45 Colt ammo. Opinions differ, no doubt.
I had no good reason for either of those revolvers but I did want to learn something about them, which I did. I'm sure the Model 547 was a much nicer gun to shoot in 9mm than in .357, if somewhat less effective but still more effective than .38 Special, supposedly.
One reason I've read for the .45 convertible was that factory .45 auto ammo is better than factory .45 Colt ammo. Opinions differ, no doubt.