Round/Flat Nose Bullets Cycling in a Bolt Action?

[jackstrawIII]

Hey all,

I'm considering developing a "short range" deer load using 150/170 grain flat/round nose bullets in a 308 bolt action rifle. Looking at using the Sierra Pro Hunter round or flat nose, specifically. Basically, I never shoot more than 150 yards and, at that distance, flat/round nose bullets definitely hit a bit harder.

Here's my question, will a flat nose bullet cycle reliably in a bolt action rifle, as long as I keep the cartridge length correct? If not, how about round nose?

Anyone actually loaded something like this and can speak to the feeding reliability?

Thanks so much.

Ps. Please don't tell me to "just buy a 30-30". I have a handy little bolt action rifle I like, and want to stick with it. Thanks.

 

[Unclenick]

You should take a look at Sierra's load data for the same bullets in your chambering. They will have a recommended Cartridge Overall Length (COL). It does differ with the bullet design. Target shooters ignore that to some extent, but they are often loading one round at a time and trying to shoot sub-moa. For minute of deer, especially at shorter ranges, the recommended number is your best choice, as it will shoot well enough and will have already been tested for feed by Sierra, who develops their loads in production rifles. Note that the 170 grain flat tip bullets are optimized for impact at 30-30 velocities and may not hold together well in game at full .308 velocities. However, for a slightly reduced .308 load, like a youth load, that produces 30-30 velocities, they can be a good choice.

If you don't have Sierra's manual, call them (800-223-8799) and they will give you the recommended COL for the specific bullet numbers in .308. Also ask them the impact velocity range they designed each bullet for to be sure you don't exceed them.

 

[jackstrawIII]

Unclenick, are you saying that if I keep the COL correct, then I won't have any feeding issues? That's my primary concern with this.

Thanks.

 

[Unclenick]

If you use Sierra's recommended COL, you should be fine. Some old military rifles have feed ramps cut more specifically for pointed bullets. The M1 Garand, for example, isn't too happy with a wide flat nose cast bullet, like some of the LBT designs. But most bolt guns seem to be fine with them as long as the COL is shortened enough that the final profile would fit inside the pointed bullet profile.

By the way, Sierra has a staff of ballistic technicians to help customers with these problems over the phone or by email. I wouldn't hesitate to tap that resource because they've had other customers using their products come back to them with feedback about every possible problem. They can draw on that specific experience to address your situation.

 

[jackstrawIII]

Unclenick, I actually spoke with someone at Sierra about this and they were very helpful when discussing bullet construction and effectiveness at various speeds. Regarding feeding, however, the individual I spoke with was very frank that he didn't have any experience with this particular application and was unable to answer the question. I appreciated his honesty and assistance for sure.

 

[CTSixshot]

The flat point profile may bind a tad in some bolt guns; try some and see.
I have loaded the 115g Lyman 311008 (technically for .32-20), 165gr cast FN bullets (typically used in .30-30), Speer Varminter, X-Treme 150gr plated FN and 180gr GCFN (coated bullet) in 7.5x55mm (Swiss) and in 7.62 NATO (FR-7). They all function adequately, but you can't speed feed without an occasional misfeed 100% of the time.
Round nose bullets 110gr (M1 Carbine, Speer Plinker bullets) and the more typical .308" diameter RN feed quite well. As a matter of fact, the Lyman 311410 is my go-to plinking bullet in 7.62 NATO and 7.5 Swiss; makes for easy-shooting and economical reloads; about 1000 rounds per pound of powder (not for hunting purposes, of course, but just fine to ring steel or kill paper, bowling pins etc.).

 

[Unclenick]

Interesting that the ballistic tech hadn't run into this.

If you look at all the cast bullets out there, you will see a good variety of nose shapes that work successfully. I would not expect seating a flat nose to the full 2.810" maximum SAAMI COL for .308 would be counted on to feed.

The round nose Sierra 180 grain bullet is shown with a COL of 2.710" in my Sierra manual. Getting the crimp cannelure level with the case mouth establishes that, and it should be fine. It was tested in a Savage 12VSS bolt action rifle, so you should be fine with it. Keep in mind that there are no absolute guarantees about that, though, it's just a probability. Some particular rifle can always have some particular problem with a particular bullet.

On the 30-30 bullets, the 30-30 has a very long neck and the crimp cannelure is up fairly high on the bullet. From the photo in my Sierra manual, it might be about 0.6 inches from the base. If you seat so that cannelure is level with the case mouth, I expect your feed will be as described above, and work most of the time, but the cartridge will be short and you will use up some of the powder space in the case with the base of the bullet. So I would start with a powder like H4895, which doesn't mind being underloaded, and start at about 35 grains. That's below a starting load for a 175 grain MatchKing, but with the bullet eating up extra space, QuickLOAD thinks you'll still have about 85% case fill with H4895, which is satisfactory, and you should get about 2300 fps from a 24" tube, which keeps that bullet within a velocity range it should be OK with.

 

[Chainsaw.]

Its really just going to boil down the the ramp angle from the magazine to the chamber. Ive had bolt guns that would hand up on spitzer type bullets and ones that would feed empty cases well. Maybe you could hacksaw off the tip of one bullet and see how she feeds?

 

[F. Guffey]

What rifle, push feed or control feed?

F. Guffey

 

[jackstrawIII]

F. Guffey, it's a Sako A7 Roughtech. Push feed.

 

[Clark]

About 10 years ago I built a VZ24 Mauser 300WinMag and took it elk hunting.

In 2004 I got ~~ 320 pounds of a dozen kinds of blem bullets from Lock Stock and Barrel when the semi truck from Hornady backed up to the loading dock and I was playing crazy internet jockey..... what have I done?

I have a bunch of 220 gr round nose 308 bullets I will never use.
I made dummy rounds to check ammo feeding in the rifle.
Worked fine.

Then I went hunting with some Barnes Triple shock [or other bullets of the day] that were pointy.

The points of the bullets got stuck in the crack between the magazine well and receiver feed ramp.

I hunted single shot.

 

[CTSixshot]

Again, none of the loads that I've been using are ideal for hunting applications (beyond varmints, at least), but they do function.
My latest efforts have been with the Hornady 90g XTP-HPs in 7.5 Swiss and 7.62 NATO. I know, not the intended match, but they do work. They are short and stubby, but they feed just fine, thank you. At 110 meters, they print on paper and appear to travel straight and true. They work fine for recycling water-filled soup cans, too. Please note, I'm not pushing these to standard .308 Winchester velocities; currently loading with 12.5g of W571.
If you are concerned about speedy second shots, load your magazine well so the follow-up shot is feeding from the straighter-on position, so there's less risk of binding.
Good luck.