Rossi '92 ejects live rounds w/fired case

[Doug444]

I've got a Rossi Puma ('92 clone) in .44 Mag that I use for CAS. I chose a 200 gr. cast bullet to work up a load with, and low and behold the Rossi, my Hawes Western Marshall (Peacemaker clone) and Vaquero all like 5.0 gr. of Titegroup from an accuracy and POI perspective. So, what's the problem? I'm getting a 20-30% "double eject" in the Rossi when I shoot a stage. By that I mean, in a string of 10 off-hand shots 2-3 of the live rounds will pop out of the action when I eject the case I just fired!

I THINK that the problem is that I may be a bit too energetic working the lever, but it seems I need to be somewhat aggressive otherwise the fired case doesn't completely exit, with obvious results. I've tried loading some 240 gr. pills to give me a "heavier" live round that might resist being thrown out, and that seems to work, but as you might imagine POI changes and I now have to keep track of two different loads in the same caliber (since the Vaquero DOESN'T like that load so far). If you're familiar with the '92 action, there's a little "catch" or stiff spot in the lever throw that seems to be where the ejector pops out the empty and the follower lifts up the next live round. There's another stiff spot when the lever is closed and the two vertical cams lock the bolt.

So, long story/short question: Is there anything I can do (kitchen table gunsmith with a good gun assembly/disassemby reference) to smoothe up the action without compromizing the ability of the rifle to handle full-house Mag. ammo? Or should I just resign myself to trying to find a 240 gr. load that all three guns will accept reasonably well?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Doug444

 

[James K]

I think you will find the "stiff parts" are where the bolt rides over the hammer. This is normal.

The way those guns work is that when the bolt is closed, the cartridge release is tripped, letting the next round in the magazine come back onto the carrier. When the round in the chamber is fired, the bolt first extracts and ejects the empty case, then the carrier is pulled upward and held by a spring, thus positioning the fresh round up against the feed lips in the receiver. At that point, it is very much like any other top round in any magazine, held in position by the feed lips. If those lips are missing (they are separate pieces in the 92 action) or not shaped properly, the round can get past them and pop right out.

There are a couple of possibilities for the cause of the problem. One is that in your "kitchen table gunsmithing" you left out the feed lips when you put the gun back together or somehow installed them wrong. Another is that they were not made right at the factory. A third is that they are for the wrong caliber.

Without seeing the gun, I cannot give any more advice, but will try to help further if you can find out any more info.

P.S. The weight of the bullet or the speed with which you work the lever should have nothing to do with that problem, though some bullet shapes can be a problem in the actual feeding phase.

Jim

 

[Doug444]

Jim,
Thanks for the reply - I was beginning to think that the Rossi '92 was a mystery to TFL !

I haven't actually done any "kitchen table gunsmithing" on this gun, but I also DON'T see any feed lips inside the action on this gun as I look at it! I've got a copy of the Gun Digest Book of Firearms Assembly/Disassembly infront of me now (copyrighted 1979 ) and though it claims to cover the Rossi M92 SRS and SRC, I'm not too sure on this one. The hammer spring in my rifle is DEFINITELY different that that shown in the Gun Digest of 1979 !

I've now got the gun in front of me and I still don't see any "feed lips" , at least not if you mean something like the top edge (sides) of a detachable magazine. Oops, never mind, I can see 'em now.

I agree, the first stiff part is the bolt riding over the hammer. This baby has a SERIOUS hammer spring of a coil design. I wonder if Wolf has a slightly lighter hammer spring for this rifle?

Anyway, the second stiff part is the very last 1/4" or so of LEVER travel (couple of degrees of arc) where the cartridge carrier really "pops" up to deliver the next round. I think that's where the live round is getting ejected, and here's why I think that: I attended a CAS today and using the 240 gr. loads I STILL had 3 live rounds pop out, and actually had ONE of them just flip end-for-end and end up still in the action but BACKWARDS! I was able to dump it into my hand and reverse it and keep shooting, but the others still popped clear of the action. One cartridge in each of 3 stages .

Well, that's where I'm at at this point. Without taking the action apart to check for toolmark interference, etc. I'm not sure what else I can do. Any other thoughts?

Thanks for your help.

Doug444

 

[James K]

The cartridge guides or feed lips (as I called them) are either built into the receiver or are two rectangular blocks screwed to the sides of the receiver. By working the lever slowly, you should be able to see what is happening. The round should be held in place by the guides until the bolt pushes the round forward to chamber it. If you don't see anything doing that, then I am puzzled. Maybe you could look at another Rossi and see how it works. If there is no guide, then the round on the carrier would fall out if the rifle is turned over, and it should not.

It is possible that the overall length of the round could be a problem if it is too short or too long, but I don't see how. The second "stiff part" is also normal, at least to a point.

The hammer spring may be stronger than necessary, and I would see no problem in working it a bit. IIRC, it is a coil spring, like the late Winchester 94s, so it should be easy to remove the butt stock and take it out. I don't recommend shortening it. Instead, see if you can find a belt sander and "roll" the spring on it to take metal off the sides.

(Insert a rod through the spring and hold the sides of the spring on the sander. The sander motion will "roll" the spring and also take off metal. Make sure the spring does not get too hot, and keep a pan of water handy to dip it in.)

This will reduce tension and may help the first "stiff point".

Jim

 

[Doug444]

Jim,
Again, thanks for the reply. After more thorough review late last night, I do believe that the cartridge guides are there. It was late, so I didn't want to mess around with any live ammo in the gun , so I'll have to make up a dummy cartridge or two to cycle through the action to see what's going on. I should be able to eject and load with the rifle upside down without loosing the "new" cartridge, if the guides are doing their job, right?

Is it possible (we're talkin' theory here) for the inertia of the bullet to "pull" the cartridge up and away from the carrier and away from the cartridge guides with a rapid lever stroke? These are Cowboy loads (5.5 gr. Titegroup) which only fill about 1/3 of the case or so, and maybe I'd have better luck with a 180 gr. bullet?

I appreciate your patience. I'm more inclined to replace the hammer spring than try to change it's characteristics with a belt sander, but that's based upon my skill, not the merit of the suggestion !

Again, thanks for the assistance, and patience!

Doug444

 

[James K]

I am not sure I could say that the rifle should work upside down (I have not tried my 92 that way), but the rounds should not pop out. I don't know about the effects of the heavy bullet, but of course, it will add more inertia to what ever is going on.

With the dummy rounds, you can try and maybe see what is happening.

By the way, don't rule out a defect in the rifle. Rossi has had a bunch of quality control problems, and factories usually just fire one proof load, they don't run a full magazine at top speed.

Jim

 

[Doug444]

Well, I made up a couple of dummy rounds (case, powder, bullet and spent primer to get the right weight), and now I can't MAKE it pop one out! I've worked the lever slow, fast, upside down (they fell out, but that was the only way they fell out )... I guess I'll just have to see what happens at the next shoot.

Thanks anyway.

Doug444

 

[Scruffy Smith]

Rossi '92

I just joined this forum and noticed this old posting on Rossi '92 problems. If you (or anyone else) need any info on this lever action, just let me know - I have some good references and tricks on slicking up the Rossi.

-scruffy

 

[Throckmorton]

My rossi did this for a while..

and my fix was to shim the rh feed rail(as viewed from the top)with some stickybacked heavy foil off of a stickon sign.I did this becuase the rails in my winnester were 'snugger' than the rossi...the cartridges just kissed the rails as they came up.
Adjusting the oal got me nowhere,btw.
The 'hitch' in the levering may well be the carrier itself.It's got a spring loaded deteten that rides in a groove,IIRC.If it gets dirty down in that area it pops up rather quckly.The stiff spot on closing is most likely the heavy duty ejector being 'preloaded' as it shoves aginst the case rim.This is also why the rossi's launch empties into the next county.
A spring kit will work wonders on a rossi in most cases...sure did on mine.
One last thought,clean the mag tube fairly often...mine tends to rust just enought to keep the rounds from feeding smoothely.

 

[Scruffy Smith]

Yup, I found the same thing except I used some brass shim stock on the right side cartridge guide. I also took out the carrier plunger and spring, twirled a drill bit in the hole (by hand), polished the plunger with 1200 grit paper, cleaned and lubed the spring and plunger and polished the right side of the carrier. It didn't make a huge difference, but the carrier doesn't SNAP up like it used to. LIke you say, the springs made the biggest difference - lighter mainspring, ejector spring, trigger spring and lever button spring. The last thing I'm looking for is a spare extractor. As soon as I find a place to order one I can lighten up the tension on the spare and not touch my original (just in case)

I got a lot of this from the Carolina Cowboys webpage.

I hadn't thought of the mag tube rusting. My Rossi is out in all kinds of weather - guess I'd better check it. Thanks for the info.

-scruffy