Rock River LE/Tactical Stock Pics

[Redlg155]

I'm building a Post Ban 9mm AR and initially couldn't decide on whether to go with the A1 or Rock River LE type stock. The A1 stock was only 5/8 in shorter than the A2 stock so I decided to go with the RR LE and DPMS 1" stock spacer. The stock spacer will be in either tomorrow or Friday and I'll post another pic of it installed with the LE stock. Here are a couple of pics for anyone deciding to get one.

This first pic is the Rock River LE stock installed on my 9mm AR. In comparison I have a standard A2 stock. The A2 stock is approx 3.5in shorter than the RR LE stock.

This second picture is me with the rifle mounted in firing position. I'll definitely need to use the DPMS stock spacer for th 1" more length, which is understandable since the stock was designed to be used with heavy clothing or body armor. In this pic my hairline has also receded approx 3.5in from when I was in my 20s.

I had heard of some reports of folks having their nose popped by the charging handle and now I understand why! The spacer should cure the problem. With that I'll have a stock approx 2.5in shorter than the A2 stock, a definite improvement for me.

Oh...I'm 5'5" and 175 and I have problems. You 6 foot guys would definitely be in trouble!

Good SHooting
RED

 

[Erich]

That's an intriguing idea, Redleg. I'm looking forward to the photos with the spacer in place. (My hairline has done something similar, btw. ) I really wonder about the committee that decided that stock needed to be longer - the military does so much prone shooting in the field. One of the neatest rifles I have is a Swede 94 carbine with a teensy little stock (gotta figure those Swedes planned on wearing coats when using the rifles) - it's very quick-mounting and therefore handy for brush.

I get intimidated when I think about replacing an AR buffer tube (I haven't done much mechanical since I was 10 and rebuilt a VW engine as a summer chore - thanks Dad - and I really don't want to screw up my Bushmaster), but this is the sort of project that makes me think maybe I ought to give it a shot.

Looking forward to the photos with the spacer; thanks for posting this!

 

[BigD]

My hairline is fine, but at 35 I'm well past the "getting gray" stage...definitely far closer to full gray than *any* kind of brown.

The A2 stock is approx 3.5in shorter than the RR LE stock.

I think you meant to say that the A2 stock is approx 3.5in longer than the RR LE stock.

 

[fastang50]

not flaming you but...

That looks like a freekin' munchkin stock! I'm 6' with ape arms so I'm actually considering lengthening (sp?) my A2 with a spacer.

 

[Pvt. Joker]

Buffer Smuffer!

Erich,
Changing the buffer tube on your AR is one of the easiest things you can do it it. The main thing you have to be carefull of, is not to lose the detent for the takedown pin. I'm not the best writer, but I am sure someone can explain how to do it, in detail. It really is simple.

-Jared

 

[Erich]

I was worried about torquing it properly . . .

 

[Onslaught]

VERY nice... If I had a post-ban 9mm AR, that's exactly what I'd want on it. I'd also have to go with either a spacer between the stock and receiver, or at least a 1" buttpad.

I have fired my pre-ban AR (5.56) with the stock fully collapsed, but mine's a flat top, so I didn't get smacked... It has one of those gosh-aweful ugly 1" slip on pads for it too...

 

[Redlg155]

Ok..I finally got the DPMS Spacer installed. Here are some Pics.

The stock makes the OAL of the AR 31". Still pretty short.

And finally me again with a little more room for comfortable shooting.

Everything went together well without any real problems. The only thing I had to add was aa 3/16 flat washer between the spacer and end of the carbine size buffer tube to eliminate a slight rattle. This is probably because the DPMS spacer was designed after the A1 and A2 stocks. The RR LE is slightly different.

I'll edit and post more on this tonight after work.

Good SHooting
RED

 

[Erich]

Thanks for the new pics and update. It looks good!

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I have one of those stocks as well. It goes with the receding hair line.

Given that it is the LE tactical or "entry" stock, how you shoulder the weapon will largely determine if you get a nasty nose bump, or in my case, a bump on the glasses from the ACOG.

Unlike regular stocks that are made to positioned in the hollow of the pectoral and deltoid muscles, the entry stock is not. A regular length stock tends to work best with the body bladed to the target, but the entry stock works best from a full frontal or nearly full frontal facing of the target.

One of the problems of longer buttstocked guns for entry purposes is that to using them most appropriately, the body needs to be bladed to the anticipated target. However, that can be quite limiting to your muzzle swing arc capability from left to right. Blading essentially means you can't cover one side nearly as easily as the other. You don't want to encounter a target who appears in that dead zone one the weak side of the arc that you just can't quite reach.

When shooting the gun with the entry stock, it is placed 2-4" in from the normal shoulder firing location, to a more centered location on the chest. When proceeding forward, you don't blade the body. In this position, you have a much wider and better balanced muzzle swing arc from left to right than you would have bladed. Also in that position, the charging handle ends up further out in front of your fact such that you don't get your nose bumped every time you fire a round.

You can still shoot like Red showed us with his pictures, but you don't quite get the full advantage of having the shorter stock if you use it in the more traditional manner.

By the way, my RR entry stock did not fit quite right either and had a slight wobble in it. I added the new GG&G receiver end plate sling mount for the A2 (they already had them for CAR stocks, but not the A2s) and that wobble is now completely gone.

Also, the RR buttplate on the entry stock actually did not properly fit flux so I am using the rather nasty Colt original A2 butt plate with those nice little gripping pyramids that really dig in if you are shooting without a shirt between you and the buttplate (such as in a tank top).

 

[DW Altom]

I also had a problem with the A2 stock for CQB training, so I put the RR entry stock on my Bushmaster Dissipator. Because the entry stock was way too short I opted for the 1 3/4 inch buttplate (available from Bushmaster) instead of the spacer. That gave me plenty of compact handling and still enough length of pull to put my nose in about the right place.

With a Wilson Tactical Muzzle brake, my Dissipator is a neat little shorty AR-15 that looks stock at a distance, but is actually a mini-gun compared to my A2 HBAR. My next step is to send it off to Kurt's Kustom Guns to trim about a pound off the barrel. If I can scrounge up the money I may make it a flat top. Maybe. Maybe not.

 

[Redlg155]

Just tried mine mounted towards the center position and you are right..it does help when having to cover or engage the offhand side. I could also see this helping if you ever had to shoot with a gas mask.

I guess I got lucky because the buttplate fits very nicely on mine. I really like the smooth edges. It makes shooting with light clothing, a definite must here in FL, much more enjoyable. I may think of adding a trapdoor buttstock later if I can find one I like. I hear they make them for A1 stocks also, so I'll have to see if they have a smooth edge. I had forgotten to post that the LE stock does have a hollow butt large enough to allow a small cleaning kit to be put in with a different buttplate.

I think I found a real winner here. A soft shooting 9mm in a rifle the size that both my wife and I can shoot comfortably.

Now for Kurts to hurry up and get a Sten mag block out that will work with the standard magazine release button. Uzi mags are nice, but kinda expensive when compared to Sten mags.

Good SHooting
RED

 

[rock_jock]

Redlg155,

I am very seriously considering buying a RRA 9mm upper to occasionally switch out from my M4gery upper I have now. A couple of questions:

1. Has anyone fired your gun left-handed? If so, have they been hit by ejected brass? (I don't get hit by .223 cases, but the 9 may eject differently).
2. Have you switched your 9mm upper out for a regular .223 upper? How much trouble is it?
3. What kind of recoil do you experience with the 9mm upper?
4. How would you rate the "cool" factor?

Thanks.

 

[KSFreeman]

No way, Red! Long and lanky with ape arms [insert skinny orangutan jokes here] and I think short stocks rock on shoulder weapons. Better too short than too long, especially when moving and grooving. IME, of course, some people think I'm wierd.

 

[Gumbo]

Don't worry about getting tagged by that charging handle. The only way it will happen, barring a serious failure of the weapon, is if you ride the charging handle home after charging. For consistancy of mount I was trained to put my nose right on the charging handle. We zoomies do not get to live fire often =) and present company(me) not included, many do not fire any weapon on a regular basis. You would be surprised what this little trick will do for even the worse shooter. 223 and 9mm recoil is mild and will not hurt even when you have that T handle in your right nostril.

 

[Redlg155]

Rock..

1. Has anyone fired your gun left-handed? If so, have they been hit by ejected brass? (I don't get hit by .223 cases, but the 9 may eject differently).

No, but if you study the ejection pattern of me firing a Rock River 9mm you can get an idea. This was my previous one where someone made me a very nice offer, so hence my building a second one. The deflector is also large compared to the .223 type brass deflector which will offer a lefty more protection.

You will also note the lack of muzzle rise in firing. This one has a birdcage type FS, so other than hiding the flash a bit, it isn't much different than a bare barrel.

2. Have you switched your 9mm upper out for a regular .223 upper? How much trouble is it?

Yes. The 9mm hammer or modified .223 hammer will work for both calibers. Lots of folks over at AR15.com report good results using the standard buffer setup. Upper swap is as simple as punching the two takedown pins and sticking the new upper on. You will also have to remove the mag block so you can use .223 mags again, a 10 second job.

3. What kind of recoil do you experience with the 9mm upper?

Very minimal. My wife and 13 year old daughter can handle it easily. I usually shoot 200 or more rounds a session without any fatigue. I have never had any complaints to any shooters that have ever asked to shoot my 9mms. It's a big hit at the indoor range.

And last question..."Cool Factor" is way up there. There aren't many folks out there who have 9mm AR. They aren't something you see everyday. Where it really shines is at an indoor range where only pistol or pistol caliber rifles are allowed. You can bet you will get some interested people. I always do.

Hope this helps a bit.
Good SHooting
RED

 

[rock_jock]

Red,

Thanks for all the helpful comments. Based on your message and the friendly folks at AR-15.com, I ordered a RRA 9mm upper from Sableco today. I also ordered the magwell block and two modified UZI mags. I didn't know if I needed a 9mm hammer or not, so I called Accuracy Speaks in AZ, from whom I purchased a match trigger set about a year ago and was told that the existing .223 hammer should work fine. I am really looking forward to getting the gun set up. My local range holds 3-gun matches every month, but will not allow rifle-caliber rounds on the combat range, so I have been trying for months to find a good pistol-caliber carbine. My last attempt was a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 and as I have related to others, is not lefty-friendly. An AR in 9mm seems like the perfect solution. I'll post the results when the gun comes in.