Rimlock in .38 Super?

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Bill DeShivs

New member
Everyone talks about the dreaded "rimlock" in .32 ACP guns. In all my many years of shooting I have never experienced, or even seen it happen.
Before anyone think I'm inexperienced, I carry a .32 every day, and I own at least a half-dozen of them.
I also carried a Colt Commander in .38 Super for quite some time. I did a lot of shooting with it, mostly 90 grain Super Vel cartridges. Since the Super is semi-rimmed, like the .32 ACP, shouldn't we be hearing about rimlock here?
The new makers like STI make Super frames that hold about a gazillion bullets, and the comp shooters fire gazillions of bullets. You would think there would be some instances of rimlock there.
I think rimlock is induced by inexperienced, bumbling shooters stuffing magazines.
Bill
 
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shurshot

New member
A .38 Super Colt loaded with Super Vels??? I'm guessing you were packing back in the late 60's or early 70's??? No disrespect intended Old Timer:) , but I have seen that ammo at Gun shows selling as collectors items... So did I guess the era correctly?
 
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Jim Watson

New member
Layne Simpson's book says rimlock is uncommon in a single stack magazine. He went through a spell of really touting the 9x23 to avoid it in double column magazines, though. And some number of racegunners are using .38 Super Comp, .38 TJ, 9mm Super Comp, and 9mm P Major to get rid of the semirim. So I wouldn't say it was a non-issue, just less common in better quality guns.
 
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Lurper

New member
Bill,
I have fired more than a million rounds of .38 super in both single stack and double stack guns and have never had (nor heard) of that happening.
 
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pocketgun

New member
The .38 Super is a high pressure version of the old .38ACP cartridge IIRC, which was a semi-rimmed design. My guess is the stiff recoil springs probably just force the issue enough that rimlock doesn't occur. Most people that I know of that shoot .38 Super were using it for competition, so they were probably only shooting FMJ (or RNL) ammo, which would eliminate the necessary space in the magazine for the rounds to move around in.

Rimlock seems to be very rare in .25ACP as well, probably for totally different reasons - not enough recoil to shake the rims out of order would come to mind.
 
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shurshot

New member
I was close. From what I have read, those old super Vels were pretty hot stuff. ??? Off Topic but I want to mention it... My Grandfather wouldn't use them (Super Vels) in his SW 39-2 9MM; said he didn't trust hollowpoints. He used the Remington FMJ 124's. I have put lots of hollowpoints of various brands through the SW 39-2 since he passed and it works fine. I only wish that he had bought up a few boxes of the Super Vels for me!
 
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RickB

New member
A lot of folks are still using .38 Super intheir race guns, even with a plethora of rimless derivatives to choose from; if it was an issue, I'd think everyone would have moved on from the Super, years ago. I haven't shot a lot of Super, but I have a single stack that I shot for a year in IDPA competition, and never had any functional problems.
 
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pocketgun

New member
Has anyone shot a number of short OAL loads (like JHP) out of the .38 Super, or is it just round nose stuff? The round nose stuff just isn't susceptible to the rimlock problem.
 
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pocketgun

New member
I have only ever read of one guy who (claimed to have) had rimlock with a .25 ACP. Of the several I own, I have never had it happen either. I suspect the low recoil of the cartridge, combined with the small diameter rim are the reason. I have had repeated malfunctions with the rims catching on the case mouths during extraction on ammo with a poor crimp in my PSP-25 (licensed Browning Baby copy). This is not rimlock, but I think some people may think it is the same thing.

It may be that some factor (slide mass, recoil spring strength, etc.) just prevents it from happening with the .38 Super.

Rimlock is a real possibility in .32 ACP: plenty of people have reported problems with it over the years on the forums and elsewhere, some have provided photos. Seecamp puts a spacer in its mags for the sole purpose of preventing it, and Kel-Tec sells similar kits for both its 7 and 10 round mags that do the same thing.
 
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Hunter Customs

New member
I've built a lot of 38 super raceguns and most of the owners of those guns was shooting light hollow point bullets in those guns. I never experienced rim lock with any of the guns I built or the ammo supplied to me to test those guns.
All the race guns were double stack high capacity guns, some using the big sticks these babies really hold a lot of ammo.
Maybe those experiencing rim lock had poorly tuned mags or guns.
If rimlock is going to happen I would think it would be more likely to happen in a single stack mag instead of a double stack mag.
Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
 
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HSMITH

New member
I had this discussion recently with a guy I consider very experienced and knowledgeable. He has shot at least 300K rounds of Super over the years, and probably over 500K.

His position was that Super would rimlock, IF the loads were short. He said that if you load them long, 1.25ish and try to get out to as long as the magazine will take them you will never have a problem. Get them much shorter than that and rimlock is possible though it will be pretty rare. He also mentioned that it won't be apparent unless very lightly sprung, a stronger sprung gun masks it by forcng the rim to ride over the one under it. Most of his experience is in very light sprung raceguns. He also said that he didn't know what was happening exactly until Chip McCormick talked to him about it at Nationals one year, since following the advice Chip gave he hasn't had a single problem.

I have no experience with it, but I do trust the guy that told me about it.
 
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Lurper

New member
I have shot everything from 130 RN to 100 jhp over the years with no problem. Lately I have been shooting 122 JHP. However, I have always loaded my rounds on the long side because that was how I achieved the best accuracy.
 
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pocketgun

New member
HSMITH said:
His position was that Super would rimlock, IF the loads were short. He said that if you load them long, 1.25ish and try to get out to as long as the magazine will take them you will never have a problem. Get them much shorter than that and rimlock is possible though it will be pretty rare. He also mentioned that it won't be apparent unless very lightly sprung, a stronger sprung gun masks it by forcng the rim to ride over the one under it. Most of his experience is in very light sprung raceguns. He also said that he didn't know what was happening exactly until Chip McCormick talked to him about it at Nationals one year, since following the advice Chip gave he hasn't had a single problem.
Click to expand...

Both these statements fit in with what was speculated about above. If I owned a .38 Super and used it for carry, I don't think it would be a problem provided normal strength recoil springs were in use. Since I can't think of a reason to light-spring hot carry ammo, I don't think rimlock would be a factor.
 
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