Rifles are Weapons.

[taylorce1]

I've been reading a bit of "Art of the Rifle" and I found a few quotes that would have went well in a previous thread about the the use of the word "Weapon" to describe firearms. I don't remember seeing these quotes in the original thread and I really don't want to beat a dead horse too much. I just really liked the way Colonel Cooper said them.

"Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal weapons."

"The rifle is a weapon. Let there be no mistake about that. It is a tool of power, and thus dependent completely upon the moral stature of its user. It is equally useful in securing meat for the table, destroying group enemies on the battlefield, and resisting tyranny. In fact, it is the only means of resisting tyranny, since a citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized."

"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

—Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

Obviously Mr Cooper put a lot of thought into this and of course I'm sure his military background had a lot to do with this. The more I read the more I find myself enjoying what he had to say.

 

[thejeanmachine16]

I very much like this part

they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

 

[Mosin44az]

I remember that passage from when the book was excerpted in a gun magazine a number of years ago. A superb statement.

 

[Benonymous]

Col. Cooper

Col. Coopers writing style reminded me of my Grandfather. They were both "old school" educated and knew every capital city and its location in the world. They would have both had a compact but useful knowledge of a few foreign languages. They both served their country. Both of them valued honesty and integrity in a person and in themselves. Lastly, the way they spoke was forthright and purposeful, backed up by experience and knowledge. I can only hope to be a little like them.

 

[The Tourist]

reminded me of my Grandfather

Ouch.

The problem here is having a man give his opinion without disclaimers or fear of a cadre' of angry attornies make him couch his discourse in PC.

For that, I'm glad I'm of a generation that values these things.

For example, we have a thread here currently using the phrase "African rifles." Believe it or not, my first thought was, "Well, some idiot is going to come in here blazing because he believed we equated "African" with the idea of "substandard."

For this reason, I prefer the atmosphere of Harley shops to some churches. And I told that to our minister.

 

[Art Eatman]

"Weapon" is one of those words where the definition is sorta in the mind of the user. We don't think of a ball-point pen as a weapon, but somebody who's been stabbed by one might well have a different view.

We as riflemen don't commonly think of an Olympic Free Rifle in .22 rimfire as a weapon, because of the intent of use. Still, it can be quite effective if used as a weapon. "Used" is the operative word.

IOW, worrying about the definition of "weapon" is pretty much picking flypoop out of pepper. The utility of something as a weapon is a different matter, which is what Cooper points out.

Art

 

[taylorce1]

Art, I definatly understand what you are saying about the use of the word "Weapon". I just wanted a title that would make people look at this thread. I've been reading P.O. Ackleys books as well as Colonel Coopers and have been enjoying the way these two men articulate their ideas on their craft.

I got the privlidge of attending a WWII Veterans reunion last year in Denver. I was there on Military Orders to provide to the needs of these Veterans and their families. These men talked very much like the words found in Coopers book and you can tell they were definatly from a different era. I just wish we found more people like them in my generation and the younger ones.

With what is going on in the world today I just find myself wishing that there were more men around like the late Colonel Cooper. Men with the conviction to speak what they beleive and to stand behind what they said without backing down. To quote Benonymous:

I can only hope to be a little like them.

 

[Abndoc]

dependent completely upon the moral stature of its user.

I found that line to be telling.

 

[Yellowfin]

I found a quote that adds a nice corollary to the above passage:

"To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic."

 

[slabsides]

It's easy to be like the 'old-timers' (at 72+, I flatter myself I'm one): spend your youth in study. Read voluminously. Espouse a worthy cause. Go in harm's way for that cause, sacrificing lifespan. Survive. Never give up the fight.
I think that SOME of today's generation, those who will be returning from the Middle East, may someday appreciate the opportunity for growth that they experienced in the midst of mortal danger. They will speak out. And SOME who did not have that golden opportunity for labor and self-sacrifice will listen, and appreciate their hard-won wisdom. The majority, of course, will NOT. That is the final price you pay.

 

[overkill556x45]

I was pretty much raised by my grandparents and I hope a little of their toughness rubbed off on me. At 17 I joined the 'Guard and at 19 was in the thick of it in remote eastern Afghanistan. Now that I'm in college, I wish a few of these pansies had been made to fight for something other than flower power and free love. Honestly, you'd think it was 1969 here at (unnamed state university). I have been all but spat upon by the non-mil segment of the students and instructors (about 99%).
I am studying journalism so that one day when my skills are up to par I can stand against the new socialists and their rhetoric.

I was on the phone with an army buddy a couple of days ago and we got to talking about our AR's and the lady eating her lunch on the bench across from me looked at me scornfully and left, hissing something inaudible (AK fire does nothing for your hearing). I'm surprised security didn't escort me off campus for saying things like "shot group" and "jacketed hollow point".....then again, the semester isn't over yet!

 

[TPAW]

Art

There are three classifications..........Dangerous instrument, Dangerous weapon, Deadly weapon. Intent to use any of the above is a crime. The actual use ups the charges.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Actually there isn't much a man can't do when he has seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six....

 

[GeoW]

When hunting or firing at the range, my rifle is a tool. When propped against my night stand, it's a weapon.

GeoW

 

[RedneckFur]

Its still a tool. a 'mechanical security system'

 

[Scorch]

Rifles are Weapons

And what was the first clue?

Actually, it is a weapon when used in an agonistic manner. It is a tool. It can also be a work of art, or a means for self-expression. The weapon is between your ears.

 

[Picher]

Actually, it is a weapon when used in an agonistic manner. It is a tool. It can also be a work of art, or a means for self-expression. The weapon is between your ears.

I couldn't have said it better.

I have rifles, shotguns, and handguns. Some have been weapons in certain instances; some were made as weapons to be used against people in war, but many were never intended to be used in anger or for protection from those who would do me harm. Hopefully, they never will.

Picher

 

[Art Eatman]

overkill556x45, keep this in mind, next time some doofus hisses at you: ""They never open their mouths without subtracting from the sum of human knowledge." – Thomas Brackett Reed

I dunno the exact quote, but, "Dissent is a privilege afforded by the protection of better men than they," seems close enough.

I got my first Daisy Red Ryder for Christmas, 1941, a few months before my single-parent mother got her PhD in Psychology. (There's some sort of message, there; I've never quite figured out just what it is. )

Anyhow, I've read little of Chairman Jeff's writings with which I disagree. Mostly, I guess, that I've been a bit more confident in taking longer shots. His views of reality and mine do indeed coincide...

Art

 

[10-96]

Terminology for the firearm is one thing that I've always been kinda keen to. In '87, I learned what happens to Pvt's when they call their beloved rifles "guns"... personally, I got to grab some real estate and do a lot of pushups. That stuck with me. Then later, I began to notice the evil connotation that media folks tend to assign to firearms. Wish I had a nickle for ever time a news anchor person would sneer and they utter the word "GUN"- like they developed a very bad taste in their mouths just by uttering the word. I remember a local newscast whereupon an anchorwoman said "... inside the house of the fatal shooting, numerous hand guns were found on a table, including a Ruger." I wish I wasn't so tired that I couldn' explain this better, but maybe a few of ya'll can understand what I'm getting at. I don't own a single 'gun'. Nope. I own a fairly modest collection, or assortment if you will, of firearms, weapons, tools, items of sporting goods, militaria curios, and an antique or two of historical intrest. Fine, if liberals want to belive that "guns" are evil and evil people with evil intentions own "guns"- then I guess I'm not a "gun owner" because I'm certainly not a member of that crowd.
Mr. Finley, TSRA Running Target Director and one of the authors of the Tx concealed carry program likewise has a distaste for the assigned term "weapon". He has spent 30+ years teaching youth and grownups alike various sporting aspects of shooting competition and concealed carry classes since it's inception in this state. We have come to a respectable understanding with each other over our choice of prefered terminology. One time while we were talking, he noted that I refered to one of my firearms as a weapon and promptly told me his veiwpoint on that term. His level of understanding came to light when I reminded him that due to my line of work that yes indeed, the particular firearm I was refering to is not carried for the intent of sporting purposes, but to defend (or may God forbid take) life in the course of defending what's lawful and right.
Col. Cooper was asked by a media person if he believed that violence begets yet more violence. His reply was to the tune of "I should certainly hope that it does! For it would be my endeavor to see that whoever comes against me armed should beget much more violence than they can comfortably live with!" I want to look that up sometime, because of the respect I have for the late Colonel, I feel it is a serious injustice to misquote him.

 

[MacGille]

"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own.

A weapon is an instrument of violence when used to injure, kill, or coerce another. Anything can be a weapon, although some things are designed to be weapons. Rifles are force multipliers, but it is in the mind and heart of the user that the difference between weapon and tool arises. There is nothing inherently evil in weapons or in firearms. The user brings evil, or good, to the affair.

I would wish that the people of the United States would look beyond the propaganda on both sides to see the truth of the issues. We must not let crime abide in our society. To focus on the weapon and not on the perpetrator is to lose sight of the real issue. Our criminal justice system is broken. We focus on the care of prisoners instead of the removal of criminals. Our constitution requires certain rights to the accused and so it should, but the punishment of criminals should be certain and harsh. Once a person decides not to abide by the laws that keep society safe, then that person should be stripped of the privileges of society and punished until he recants. All rights and privileges of citizenship should be revoked. Some permanently.

Weapons are useful in certain circumstances, rifles, pistols, sticks etc. It is our discretion that is important, not the label.