Rifle Choice Help

[itgoesboom]

In my "Rifle Scope Help" thread, a couple of people had mentioned that I should reconsider my choice of rifle that I was looking at, so I thought I would start a seperate thread dealing with that, in the hopes that people could help me make a good rational decision.

I have decided to add another rifle to meager collection of firearms. Currently, I have a SKS, Ruger Blackhawk in .357, Ruger 22/45, Bersa .380, SA XD9 subcompact, and a mossberg 500 12ga.

I was initially looking at an "evil assault rifle" mainly for the cool factor, and the knowledge that the antis are hoping to renew the 94 ban.

I have since reconsidered that choice, and am looking at getting either a bolt action or a single shot rifle.

I am looking for a general purpose rifle. By general purpose I mean it will have to be able to fullfil multiple roles. I will use it for some range work, improving my marksmanship (primary concern), be able to be used for occasional hunting (if I get the opportunity to start), probably deer and coyote mainly, and in the oh-so-unlikely case of SHTF. BTW, do I get an award for the 1st use of SHTF since TFL re-opened?

Unfortunatly, my budget is pretty low. The rifle will have to cost at most $400-$500, and I will spend another $150-$200 on a good scope. A couple of my options come with a scope, which I intend to use temporarily, while I save up for the better scope.

Also, this rifle is probably my final rifle purchase for several more years.

So my choices that I am looking at are:

Savage 11fxp3 or 10gxp3 package rifles in .308. I am undecided whether I should go wood or synthetic. The synthetic is less stiff, I am told, but I live in Oregon where its pretty wet, so the wood may not be the best choice.

NEF Survivor in .223 and .308. I could get 2 bbls, .223 for cheap practice and range work, and work myself up to .308.

Remington 700adl synthetic .308. Probably a good choice too, very easy to get parts, reliable, can be upgraded later. Also, I think this is the only one with iron sights.

Weatherby Vanguard .308. Guaranteed 1.5moa is pretty tempting, good reputation. I know it is made by howa.

Tikka T3 in .308. I think this is just above my price range, but would also be a good choice. Very accurate I am told.

I would really like a Savage 12bvss, but it's also a little too far out of my price range, and the weight would be too much for carrying around. But I am still tempted. Same with a 10fple-1.

So whatcha all think? What would you do?

I.G.B.

 

[Pilgrim]

Also, this rifle is probably my final rifle purchase for several more years.

Naaaah ... you're just kidding ... right?

I would definitely go with the Remington or the Savage. I don't have any experience with the Weatherby or the Tikka. My first centerfire rifle was the NEF Survivor in .308. I sent it back to the factory for the free 3 lb. trigger job (basically mandatory as the factory trigger pull is NASTY) and bought a .44 mag. and 20 ga. barrels for it. It is a decent rifle ... solid, lightweight, simple (not much to break). I did have a problem with cases sticking in the chamber (which I have since heard is not uncommon). It was very annoying. When it happened, I would have to push a cleaning rod from the muzzle end to get the case out. I sent it back to the factory again, and they fixed it. Also, it seems to rust very easily. I have some pitting on one of my barrels from a rust spot from fingerprints that didn't get wiped off for a couple of days.

For a hunter who wants a lightweight rifle and the challenge of a single shot or for a new shooter to learn on, the NEF is OK. However, if you are looking for a general purpose rifle and this is going to be your ONLY rifle for a long time , you DEFINITELY should get a repeater. One possibility you didn't list is a 30-30 lever action - that would also fit your requirements nicely (Marlin 336 would be my choice here).

My personal general purpose rifle is a Remington 700 ADL Synthetic in .308 with a Leupold Vari-X III 1.5-5X20 mounted with Weaver Proview 1-peice mounts. These mounts are about as low as you can get as they screw directly onto the receiver - no separate bases and rings. I had the barrel shortened to 20" and recrowned and had a 3 lb. trigger job done. The great thing about the Remington 700 is there are parts and accessories available everywhere and any riflesmith can work on them. They have a great trigger too (after it is tuned by a gunsmith).

I like my current scope, but I like things simple and robust. If I had it to do over, I might would go with a fixed power scope ... a Leupold M8 in 2.5X20mm Compact or a 4X33mm. The 2.5X is a shotgun/muzzleloader scope which will work fine on a centerfire rifle, but it is set parallax-free at 75 yards. The rifle scopes are set parallax-free at 150 yards. I would send the 2.5X to Leupold and get them to change it to 150 yards parallax-free. These fixed power Leupolds run around $200 - $250. If you want a variable, there might still be a few places with the old Vari-X IIIs available at closeout prices ( try calling Lock Stock and Barrel at 800-228-7925 to see if they still have any).

Mike

 

[Pilgrim]

One other thing ...

It has been my personal experience that every time I have saved and bought quality, I have been happier than when I went ahead and got the cheap stuff I could afford at the time. If you can't afford good glass, buy the rifle and use the iron sights until you can save for it. I have a few cheap scopes laying around that were replaced by good scopes. The money I spent on the cheap ones was pretty much wasted because they aren't worth anything used. You can get decent money for a used Leupold if you decide to sell it later.

My NEF Survivor ... it's sitting in the back of my gun cabinet ... I can't remember the last time I shot it.

 

[jmoffatt]

I personally would go with the savage if your on a budget, for the money their the best buy. The Remys are great and I own several but the Savages out the box accuracy is as good as any out there, IMHO.As far as a scope goes get the best you can afford, I will never not recomend Leupold for they are as good as it gets ( minus of course some of the German Glass ). If you are going to be doing any kind of range work I would suggest a little higher power setting such as 3X9 but thats just personal prefrence. Good luck on your purchase!

 

[7.62FMJ]

You left out the Ruger bolt action. I have a stainless lightweight in .308. Butt ugly stock but otherwise quite functional.

If you did not include the Ruger for a reason, then I would go with the Savage. They are selling combos pretty reasonable. Everybody always has preferences, but you can get a great deal on the package and then change the glass later if it does not work for you.

 

[itgoesboom]

Pilgrim,

Naaaah ... you're just kidding ... right?

Unfortunatly I am not. Finances (and my wife) demand that I stop spending money on my firearms. Ofcourse, before every firearm purchase, my wife says no more for awhile, and 6 months later I am getting something new...but something tells me she is serious this time.

If you can't afford good glass, buy the rifle and use the iron sights until you can save for it. I have a few cheap scopes laying around that were replaced by good scopes.

The plan is to purchase some good glass. May not be the same day that I pick up the rifle, but it will be soon after. Probably a Leupold, maybe a Nikon. But probably one of the VX-I Leupolds. If I purchase the Weatherby or Tikka, I will have to wait till I get the scope to start shooting it. If I get the Remington, I can use the iron sights while I save. If I get one of the savage models, than I will practice with the cheap scope while I save for the Leupold. Either way, I am going to get a good scope.

However, if you are looking for a general purpose rifle and this is going to be your ONLY rifle for a long time , you DEFINITELY should get a repeater. One possibility you didn't list is a 30-30 lever action - that would also fit your requirements nicely (Marlin 336 would be my choice here).

That's not a bad idea, but since I already have an SKS that is balistically similar to a 30-30, and is a semi-auto, I think a bolt action would do me better.

I am really hoping for something that is more accurate than that as well, also something that has better long range capability.

Thanks again guys.

I.G.B.

 

[itgoesboom]

Hey Pilgrim,

My NEF Survivor ... it's sitting in the back of my gun cabinet ... I can't remember the last time I shot it.

Want to send that NEF out here my way? Give it a chance to see another part of the country and see some use?

That way I can use the whole $500 towards some really good glass.

BTW, how did the NEF in .308 shoot for you?



I.G.B

 

[BusGunner007]

I.G.B.,

You're in a quandry.
I totally understand the 'Wife' thing - I'm very lucky she stuck around while I did my thing getting more things!
We just moved into our first house.
We COULD'VE done that a long time ago, but, uh, well, let's just say my things are in a house NOW.
I knew that would happen. The other way around and I'd still be trying to get more stuff, you know? OR it would never happen. So, I was selfish and used every excuse from Clinton to Y2K to 9-11 and beyond. It's pretty much over now!

With my confession out of the way -

I stick with my Remington 700 ADL Synthetic / .308 suggestion, including the mounting system to be used with iron sights for back-up.

VERY important is to stay with a shorter length, lower power scope as suggested by the others. It will then fit in low or medium rings and you'll be able to use Butler Creek flip-up covers without interfering with the rear sight.
Sounds dumb, but I'm telling you to save you some grief.

Do some internet searching on the NIKON and Leupold sites for the scope powers and measurements and you'll be able to come to a good conclusion.
Even a used Leupold would be good because of the warranty.
A NIKON 6X42 would be a great choice if you think it would fit.

What could be simpler than a blind mag rifle and a fixed power scope?

GOOD LUCK. HAVE FUN.

 

[Pilgrim]

IGB

The only reason I hold on to the NEF is for the 20 ga. for my son to use. Every once in a blue moon I'll take it deer hunting with the .44 mag. I really want to kill a deer with it to see if all those articles on hunting with big-heavy-slow-bullets are really true.

The .308 shot pretty good. Surprisingly, the recoil is not as bad as most of the .308 bolt actions I've shot (and it doesn't even have a recoil pad). Maybe it's in the stock design. BTW, I really do like the Survivor stock. I like the pistol grip, and it has a big storage space inside the stock. Part of the reason I don't shoot the .308 barrel any more is because I had the barrel shortened to 18". Overall length already was short for the factory 22" barrel (break actions are shorter anyway), but I got a wild hair and thought I wanted a REALLY handy rifle. The muzzle blast and increased recoil made it unpleasant to shoot. It kinda looks like blunderbuss now.

 

[Pilgrim]

Here's my Remington 700

My general purpose rifle ... I'm going to camo the stock for now. I'd like to put a McMillian stock on it and maybe put a match grade barrel on it eventually.

 

[Pilgrim]

Here's My NEF Survivor

This is before I cut 4" off the barrel. It has a cheap Tasco Pronghorn scope on it. Still ... it's what I took my first deer with.

 

[Smokey Joe]

Rifle choices

Wull, of the ones you mentioned that you can afford, I guess I'd reccommend the 700ADL. Lotsa add-on parts available so you will never be all done customizing it. But if you can scrimp a little and get the Savage 12bvss you'll never be sorry. It weighs a ton, but it is really accurate right out of the box. I use mine at the range and for hunting from a blind. Got other rifles I can carry all day if that is on the menu. The accu-trigger takes a little getting used to but only a little; it is probably the best factory trigger on an American gun since the country went lawsuit-happy.

BTW, either the Savage or the Rem deserves a decent 'scope. $200 gets you in the ball game but twice that gets you clearer optics. An excellent gun with a cheap 'scope can't shoot to its potential. Believe me, BTDT.

 

[itgoesboom]

Pilgrim,

Those are a couple of nice looking rifles.

BussGunner,

I am glad to know that I am not the only one who has used all those excuses. My purchasing isn't keeping us from a house, but we really should start moving in that direction, and we are planning on maybe having kids soon. HEY!!, that means getting a .22 for our future son/daughter!!

My wife and I talked about it a little more tonight, while I was looking through the Remington catalog.

We both agreed that since is my last rifle for a good long time (and not my definition either, which would be only about 6 months or so ), that I should get something really good that will last me.

So I am possibly going to look at the 10fple option again. I really liked the 12bvss, but I realized that I really plan on doing a camo paint job on the whole rifle, and it would be a shame to paint over a nice laminate stock, as well as the SS bbl.

We will see. The Savage 10gpx is still in the running, as is the Remington 700. I think the Weatherby is still in the running too, although it is the longshot.

So right now, it is between the 10gxp3 for $370, Rem 700 for $400 or so, Savage 10fple $500 or the 12bvss for $550 which is stretching it. I will have to see how finances are in a month or two when I put this on layaway.

Thanks again for the help.

I.G.B.

 

[BusGunner007]

Get something good before she runs out of enthusiasm.

 

[Pilgrim]

we are planning on maybe having kids soon. HEY!!, that means getting a .22 for our future son/daughter!!

I got my 8yo daughter a CZ 452 Scout for Christmas this year, and IMHO it is in a league of it's own. I HIGHLY recommend it to anyone thinking of a youth size .22. It's a little more expensive than the other youth models but worth it. It's about the same size as the Marlin youth model which is a great size for small kids, but the major advantage is that you can get 5-shot and 10 shot mags for it. It comes with a single shot block, so the can shoot single shot for safety while they are learning. However, with the magazine option, they won't outgrow it in a year or two. Heck, I love shooting it too. It's very well made and accurate.

 

[ReadyOnTheRight]

For your last rifle for a while, you may want to also check out the CZ 550 American http://www.cz-usa.com/product.detail.php?id=18 . $588 MSRP - you can probably find it for less. Single set trigger, two position safety, claw extractor, mauser action. Unfortunately no iron sites.

Scope-wise, I agree with those suggesting Leupold.

 

[makarov man]

That is what I was thinking too! A CZ rifle. My brother has a model 452 and it shoots like a dream. Very accurate and totally realible! He got a 3x9 scope on it and you should see what he does to the small game around here. They don't have a chance! I thought about one myself, but I wish they would put iron sights on more of them instead of just the 22's. I hope they do!