Rheumatoid Arthritis and Magnums

[Mastrogiacomo]

My father wanted to try magnum loads so I went back to Walmart this morning and got a value pack of Remington .357 125 gr. jacked hollow points. I forgot his Ruger GP100 but did remember the SP101 2" DAO, the Ruger New Single Six, and the 686 4."

I loaded the SP with the magnums and took my first shot - which knocked me almost on my behind. I returned to the bench, unloaded it and put the bullets in the 686 and tried again. It didn't get much better: loud as a cannon, hard to control, my hand hurt - and I can't believe I gave it to my father to try next. (This is a seven shot model). He felt every one and went back with the initial shot as well. Stupid move on my part because he has rheumatoid arthritis. From then on, he used my SP with .38 (which was tame after a box of full loads) and the Single Six. I finally convinced him back to the 686 with .38s saying, "Remember, it's not the gun, it's the caliber we used." He loved it after that point and did damn good. Needless to say I finished the first 100 magnums by myself and will do so for the second half.

I've used magnums before and had a blast - what could I have used previously? Any thoughts on this? I know it was full metal jacket but that's all that comes to me. Anyway, I can't use this for defense - or ever again. His hands are swollen and I suspect they still hurt more than what he's letting on. At this point, the P345 Ruger is out and he's seriously loving the .22s more.

BTW, I stunk with the SP today and I'm wondering if my hand hurting could have been a factor - for some reason the trigger pull seemed harder. What a day....all in all though, the weather was nice and we had a good time considering. Any comments about the magnum load we used?

 

[mtnboomer]

The 110 gr & 125 gr .357 Magnum rounds are VERY loud and recoil VERY fast! I wouldn't use them for plinking, nor would I use them for self-defense [I know, I'm gonna get flamed for my heracy!]. I have a Ruger Blackhawk 6" bbl and they rattle my teeth in it! I believe that the 158 gr loads recoil as much - but not as FAST as the lighter bullets and thus is more of a push then a slap. Stick with the .38's for general plinking and only shoot the .357's to get sighted in with that load. I think the 125 gr .38 Specials make a better home defense load anyway.

Yes, your RA is a major player here. It will multiply any discomfort and physical disabilities that you may have and will remind you of it for days to come! If you don't already, I would suggest full coverage rubber grips, like Hogue or Pachmeyer, on all your handguns to soften recoil and dampen vibration.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

Thanks for the recommendation. I don't think the grip is the issue, believe it or not, I actually like the factory grip and it works well. The problem was load used. Flat out, I can't use magnums with my father as his hands just can't take it.

I'm going to pick up some .38 pesonal protection for him to use in his GP and do the same for myself, if for no other reason than to be able to control the gun better. Just got to add, regarding the noise - I don't think my father's Remington 700 ADL (.223) was anywhere near as loud as the magnums but now we're worrying how bad the 870 is going to sound....

 

[stephen426]

If the first shot almost knocked you on your butt, you might want to change your stance. I hope I don't come across as a wise ass because I'm being sincere here. Switch to a modified Weaver stance (right leg back for right handers and feet about shoulder width apart. Lean slightly forward from the waist and relax your arms a bit. Let the gun recoil naturally and absorb some of it with your body, not just your wrists. If you have a death grip on the gun and are shooting in the isoscoles stance, you will lose your balance and end up doing some damage to your wrists. I find my GP 100 to be very controllable but I also have the 6" stainless model with a full under lug barrel. In fact, its so darn heavy, I'm surprised my wrists don't hurt just from holding it up!

Rheumatory Arthritis sucks. My aunt got it as a child and it crippled her for her whole life. My cousin got it in highschool and it was VERY hard on him since he was super athletic. Fortunately medicine has come a long way and he has been able to keep it in check for the most part. It still bothers him every so often.

May I also suggest that you always start your range sessions off with the light stuff? I almost always start with my .22 (unless I'm lending it to someone) to warm up. I notice I have much less of a tendancy to flinch and it forces me to concentrate on trigger control. Besides, ammo is a lot cheaper for a warm up!

Good luck and I hope my response helps.

Oh yeah, for the muzzle blast, I suggest using ear plugs AND ear muffs. You only have one set of ears so you had better take care of them. You will also flinch a lot less when your neighbor is blowing off some 500 S&W!

As for shooting the 870, use a similar technique as the modified Weaver. Lean towards the target and let the recoil rock you back. Make sure the shotgun is nice and snug between your chest and your shoulder, versus right over the shoulder. There are a lot of nerves on the front of your shoulder and getting pounded there hurts like heck.

One last suggestion is to remember that your father has arthritis. This might mean staying away from the really hot stuff such as heavy 3" magnum shells or high powered pistols rounds. The techniques I listed above reduce the felt recoil but he may still injure himself. I know it sucks to be limited but you've got to take care of your body or you will pay the piper with interest sooner or later.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

Thanks, I actually did your sugestion and changed my stance and it helped...I did get through the ammo remember. But I'll need to remember my stance again next time as I have to finish that box off and I don't want to land on my behind trying. To be clear, I forgot my father's GP so all we had was the SP DAO and the 686+. I worried that his arthritis was being affected by the trigger pull of the SP so I told him to use the 686 single action with the .38s. You know, I was surprised how great the double action pull is with that gun. At any rate, I don't have any medical conditions but I do sometimes get pain in my hand from years of abuse and I have carpal tunnel. I think the magnum jolted me and perhaps I held it wrong and I really felt it in my wrists. Hopefully, I'll correct how I position myself so it's not as harsh.

About the 870, we are going to go with the reduced recoil and the .223 thankfully doesn't bother him (or me). I want him to get a lesson in though to learn how to use the gun right and I'm not the person for that. We use Berettas so the 9mm is very comfortable and he loves them and that's what we'll stay with - no magnums or .45s - the Mark III is looking better each day. Believe me, we know about the ear protection - this load was horrible on the hearing and we're very careful but it's time to pick up better muffs.

 

[CarbineCaleb]

Smooth .357 rounds

In .357, there isn't too much in the say 300-450ft-lb range, except some fairly pricey "Tactical" loads that may be good for defense, but are kind of expensive to pop off 100 of at the range.

If you want them to be .357s, and cheap, and soft shooting, then most intended for "Cowboy Action" shooting (different brands use different trade names) tend to be very soft shooting. Ballistically, you can just as well shoot .38Special or .38Special +Ps, but if you just want say the .357 cartridge length... There are also a few semiwadcutter range rounds that are not too bad.

Cowboy:

• Black Hills .357 Cowboy 158gr@800fps
• PMC .357 Cowboy 158gr@800fps
• Ultramax .357 Cowboy 158gr@750fps
• Georgia Arms .357 Cowboy 158gr@800fps

Range SWC:

• Black Hills .357 SWC 158gr@1050fps
• Georgia Arms .357 SWC 158gr@1100fps

...and PMC makes a "Green" frangible range round - 90gr@1325fps

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

I'll probably experiment with the magnums again but my father will need to stay with the .38s. I'll need to find something more user friendly though for myself as I found what we used today to be a wee bit brutal.

 

[CarbineCaleb]

Gentle/quiet/cheap/clean round

I'll need to find something more user friendly though for myself as I found what we used today to be a wee bit brutal.

I know what you mean - I think they are ok at my age (46)... but if I were 76, with inflamed joints, then "snappy" would become "ouchie". If you are shooting for pleasure, certainly no benefit to the big loads anyway - doesn't take much to punch through paper or have a flat trajectory out to 25 yards.

A real nice soft shooting load that also burns *exceptionally clean* and is cheap (just about ideal range round) is the Winchester "WinClean" .38 Special 125 gr softpoints. They're 125gr@775fps (167ft-lb) - ahhhhh, gentle on inflamed joints as well as the wallet - box of 50 is just $9.99 at Midway.

A fully enclosed base (not normally found even on FMJ rounds) and lead free primer make this a cleeeeeeeeeeeeen shooting round. Supposedly need less gun cleaning with these too.

 

[Sir William]

I suffer with RA myself. My choice is Winchester Supreme 357 Magnum JHPs in 180 gr.

 

[Sir William]

Defnse? Winchester Supreme 180 gr JHPs in 357 Magnum. Plinking/target? Wal-Mart UMC 158 FMJ 357 Magnum. Casual shooting? UMC LFN 158 gr 38 Special.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

You know, I'm always thrown off by what the numbers mean (grain). 125 Hollow Points in a 38 special +P is mild but that same grain in a magnum is a killer. Is the higher you go in the numbers, generally the more mild the shoot? 180 is gentler than 125 in the .357? Am I understanding that right?

110 and 125 though is gentle or manageable in the .38s - correct? I'd like to be able to understand how to make sense of the grains so I can choose my ammo better - particularly since my father and I always shoot together and I don't want to pick something that's going to hurt his hands.

 

[CarbineCaleb]

Momentum

Careful - looking at either bullet weight or velocity alone is insufficient. Generally speaking, heavier bullets in the same cartridge will produce higher recoil (because they usually have higher momentum). There can be exceptions though, because using lighter (smaller) bullets also provides more room for gunpowder. So a lighter bullet *can* actually have higher momentum in the same cartridge.

As a rough guide, you can use the listed kinetic energy to get some idea, or, just use the MS-Windows calculator accessory (Start->All Programs->Accessories->Calculator) to reckon bullet momentum - multiply the grain weight by velocity. Order your choices by momentum and choose the lowest to get the softest shooter.

Best,
Caleb

P.S. There are some second order (more complex & less important) effects that have to do with the strength of the recoil force varying over the time the bullet moves down the barrel due to use of faster or slower burning powders - we ignore that here.