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Revolvers chambered for semiauto cartridges.
- Thread starter SIGSHR
- Start date
I think they are more or less a niche market and generally, dont do things better than other guns in the caliber.
I think a lot of the time too, its one of those things that sounds like a good idea, and just doesnt play out that way in reality. Kind of like having a rifle and handgun in the same caliber.
"Convertible" guns sound like a good idea, but in reality, you usually end up with the set up you like and use, and the convertible items end up in a box, never to be used again, and just taking up space.
Ive had a few in the past and currently have two, both S&W's, a 1917 and a 625. Great guns, but so are my other revolvers in more traditional revolver calibers.
I think a lot of the time too, its one of those things that sounds like a good idea, and just doesnt play out that way in reality. Kind of like having a rifle and handgun in the same caliber.
"Convertible" guns sound like a good idea, but in reality, you usually end up with the set up you like and use, and the convertible items end up in a box, never to be used again, and just taking up space.
Ive had a few in the past and currently have two, both S&W's, a 1917 and a 625. Great guns, but so are my other revolvers in more traditional revolver calibers.
The only ones I've ever owned were Smith and Wesson's in 45 acp. For all the people who swear by moon clips, all I ever did was swear at them. I didn't see where the clips offered much over speedloaders, except the hassle of loading and unloading the clips. Those two guns went on down the road to other pastures pretty quickly.
Someone must like them. They keep turning up.
Someone must like them. They keep turning up.
With good moon clips and assuming you take care of them, they are quicker and easier to get the gun loaded quickly.
They are a PITA to load and unload, and they are a bit fragile, and if you dont take care of them, or get the wrong ones, they wont go into the gun. Pros and cons I guess, but in reality, mostly cons.
At least with normal revolver calibers, the guns cut for moon clips can be loaded all three ways and still extract/eject without the clips. Except for a couple of exceptions, the auto caliber guns need the clips to extract/eject.
They are a PITA to load and unload, and they are a bit fragile, and if you dont take care of them, or get the wrong ones, they wont go into the gun. Pros and cons I guess, but in reality, mostly cons.
At least with normal revolver calibers, the guns cut for moon clips can be loaded all three ways and still extract/eject without the clips. Except for a couple of exceptions, the auto caliber guns need the clips to extract/eject.
Have two Ruger Blackhawks in 38-40/10mm. These were special runs in the '90's called "Buckeye" revolvers. It's like having two different guns, depending upon which cylinder you use.
The problem with the 10mm is that it headspaces on the front of the cylinder; eventually, the cylinder won't load as clipped brass fills up the cylinder. A thorough cleaning solves the problem.
The problem with the 10mm is that it headspaces on the front of the cylinder; eventually, the cylinder won't load as clipped brass fills up the cylinder. A thorough cleaning solves the problem.
Mike Irwin
Staff
The most successful chambering, long-term, has been the .45 ACP, primarily in Smith & Wesson revolvers. Both Colt and S&W manufactured them for the military during WW I, and I believe both continued chambering .45 ACP into the 1920s, but only S&W continued chambering the .45 ACP through the subsequent decades.
lee n. field
New member
How many have been commercially succesful ? They seem to be one of those things that everybody says, why don't they make, they do-and they don't sell.
Numbers are out there, and I'm too lazy to look for them right now.
9mm revolvers for carry tend to come and go, in the various manufacturer's lines. Others (.45, "ten mil", .40), mostly not. (And there's Taurus' .380 revolver, waving it's arms and saying "don't forget about me!")
They introduce this extra part you need (for a carry gun), the moon clip, that you have to keep track of, and is easily damaged. And is absolutely not needed for the traditional rimmed revolver cartridges.
(I do have a moderate desire for a 9mm LCR, as a step up from .38 Special. If I can find one reasonably priced, which, right now, simply ain't happenin'.)
I have a Taurus 905 5 round 9 mm and a Ruger GP 100 Match Champion 10 mm 6 shot.
I have been using a universal Moonclip tool. You can’t really load anything By hand since it can bend the clip:
https://www.originalprecision.com/universal-moonclip-tool.html
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I have been using a universal Moonclip tool. You can’t really load anything By hand since it can bend the clip:
https://www.originalprecision.com/universal-moonclip-tool.html
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Mike Irwin
Staff
I have a bunch of RIMZ polymer moon clips for my S&W Model of 1917. They work great.
I have a bunch of the polymer clips too, and they work fine with my 1917, as do most of the other makes.
None of the polymer clips will work with my 625 though, and its picky as hell about a lot of the metal clips too.
The shorter, stubby FMJ type bullets do seem to work the best with the moon clips as far as reliable and uneventful reloading goes. I had moon clips for my Rhino, and the longer, SWC 357MAG rounds were a PITA to try and get into the gun without a lot of fiddling.
None of the polymer clips will work with my 625 though, and its picky as hell about a lot of the metal clips too.
The shorter, stubby FMJ type bullets do seem to work the best with the moon clips as far as reliable and uneventful reloading goes. I had moon clips for my Rhino, and the longer, SWC 357MAG rounds were a PITA to try and get into the gun without a lot of fiddling.
Jim Watson
New member
My only example is a S&W M25 sawn off to 4" for IDPA.
It is fast to load and assures that all the empties eject.
Loading and unloading clips is an added chore but then you get to recover your brass six at a time. There are tools for the job. I have a single point loader that is very easy, unloading takes more effort. The $90 BMT looks good, but I didn't splurge on one.
The plastic Rimz is good for casual shooting but a friend did not consider them secure enough for competition.
Other calibers have less advantage. I searched for a Speed Six 9mm but could not find a 4". I considered converting a Security Six and looked hard at S&W .38 Super and .40 L frames. IDPA changed revolver rules which greatly reduced their appeal, so I did not buy.
A friend had a S&W 610 N frame 10mm. The flat pointed bullets common in the caliber and the wider webs between chambers reduced the reloading speed advantage.
Small frame 9mms may be a sweet spot between .38 and .357, especially if that is your only revolver.
It is fast to load and assures that all the empties eject.
Loading and unloading clips is an added chore but then you get to recover your brass six at a time. There are tools for the job. I have a single point loader that is very easy, unloading takes more effort. The $90 BMT looks good, but I didn't splurge on one.
The plastic Rimz is good for casual shooting but a friend did not consider them secure enough for competition.
Other calibers have less advantage. I searched for a Speed Six 9mm but could not find a 4". I considered converting a Security Six and looked hard at S&W .38 Super and .40 L frames. IDPA changed revolver rules which greatly reduced their appeal, so I did not buy.
A friend had a S&W 610 N frame 10mm. The flat pointed bullets common in the caliber and the wider webs between chambers reduced the reloading speed advantage.
Small frame 9mms may be a sweet spot between .38 and .357, especially if that is your only revolver.
I picked up one of the 357/9mm Ruger NM Blackhawks about a year ago. Only had it about a month. I dont know if the gun I got was the last one on the cutters or what, but function with both cylinders was a PITA.Ruger has been making the convertible .357 / 9mm and .45 Colt/ .45 ACP for a long time.
Does that count as commercial success? Since they are still listed in current production I would say so.
The 357 cases had to be pulled out by hand and very few would clear the gun when you tried to eject them.
The 9mm cylinder didnt seem to like my reloads (which pass the case gauge, and worked fine in every other 9mm gun have) and some of the factory I tried, and due to the way Ruger has their lockwork set up, I would have to pull the pin and pop the cylinder out to clear the lock up with some rounds. The cylinder would roll past the point of no return, and wouldnt come back and couldnt go forward.
Ruger needs to change something there.
Bob Wright
New member
I recently posed this question on other forums and got a few surprises.
The first revolvers MADE for rimless cartridges was the Smith & Wesson M1917 revolver, closely followed by the Colt M1917. The next that I could find was that around 1930 or so, Colt did offer the Single Action Army in .45 ACP and continued until around 1940 or so. During the same time period, they offered a convertible model as well.
Around 1940 Israel approached Smith & Wesson about making a modified N-Frame Model 1917 in 9 mm parabellum. I believe around 1950 or so there was an Israeli made copy of the S&W K-Frame in 9mm.
Also during the WW II period, S&W made up a modified M1917 in .30 Carbine caliber. This never made it with the US Army due to the excessive muzzle blast. Around 1968 or so Ruger produced their Blackhawk in .30 Carbine calibedr.
More recently Charter Arms has made a number of revolvers in rimless calibers such as the .40 S&W, 10 mm, etc.
And most recently, Uberti has offered a copy of the Colt pocket model in .380 caliber. Why .380 ACP? The stated reason is that the small diameter cylinder did not allow the extra space taken up by the rims.
Bob Wright
P.S. This assumes modern cartridges and excludes front loading cartridges in attempts to circumvent Rollin White's patents.
The first revolvers MADE for rimless cartridges was the Smith & Wesson M1917 revolver, closely followed by the Colt M1917. The next that I could find was that around 1930 or so, Colt did offer the Single Action Army in .45 ACP and continued until around 1940 or so. During the same time period, they offered a convertible model as well.
Around 1940 Israel approached Smith & Wesson about making a modified N-Frame Model 1917 in 9 mm parabellum. I believe around 1950 or so there was an Israeli made copy of the S&W K-Frame in 9mm.
Also during the WW II period, S&W made up a modified M1917 in .30 Carbine caliber. This never made it with the US Army due to the excessive muzzle blast. Around 1968 or so Ruger produced their Blackhawk in .30 Carbine calibedr.
More recently Charter Arms has made a number of revolvers in rimless calibers such as the .40 S&W, 10 mm, etc.
And most recently, Uberti has offered a copy of the Colt pocket model in .380 caliber. Why .380 ACP? The stated reason is that the small diameter cylinder did not allow the extra space taken up by the rims.
Bob Wright
P.S. This assumes modern cartridges and excludes front loading cartridges in attempts to circumvent Rollin White's patents.
Bob Wright
New member
AK103K saith:
This seems to have been the nemesis of several revolvers. Getting that extractor to work right.
Bob Wright
It doesnt require moon clips and has an ejector star that will extract and eject the rimless rounds.
This seems to have been the nemesis of several revolvers. Getting that extractor to work right.
Bob Wright
Mike Irwin
Staff
"Around 1940 Israel approached Smith & Wesson about making a modified N-Frame Model 1917 in 9 mm parabellum. I believe around 1950 or so there was an Israeli made copy of the S&W K-Frame in 9mm."
1940?
Israel didn't exist then. It was still under the League of Nations mandate system as British Palestine.
Smith & Wesson has also offered 9mm revolvers commercially in several guises, including the K-frame 547 and J-frame 940.
1940?
Israel didn't exist then. It was still under the League of Nations mandate system as British Palestine.
Smith & Wesson has also offered 9mm revolvers commercially in several guises, including the K-frame 547 and J-frame 940.