revolver zen...

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gumshoe4

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Tamara wrote, in part, the following:
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Ironically, it was a Glock that led me back to reality. A series of G23's that I spent serious time practicing with forced me to concede that, with some practice, accurate hits could be made rapidly with something other than a short hair trigger. Then I bought a 625-4 because it looked cool. Hours upon hours of dry practice shooting badguys on TV with that gun taught me that a smooth, rapid pull on a DA trigger wouldn't throw your sights off target if you knew what you were doing.

I began to love DA triggers. I began to find that if you've mastered your trigger control on a DA trigger, then all your pistol shooting becomes easier. I started to really groove on the zen-like *cla-click-snap!* of the revolver's trigger and lockwork and cylinder all working in harmony. I stopped thumb-cocking my wheelguns.

I have a Model 13 again, this time a Performance Center gun, and I'd bet my life on it as readily as any handgun I own. I haven't thumbed the hammer back on any of my DA wheelguns in as long as I can remember, now. Matter of fact, the PC-13 doesn't even have a single-action notch on the hammer to mess up its' beautiful, silky trigger pull. I like
DA pulls so much that my G23C has been stood down as my bedside gun in favor of a Beretta 96D "slickslide". Why? Because it's like a 12-shot .40 cal revolver, that's why; of all DAO autos, the Beretta's is the trigger that feels most like a super-slick PPC wheelgun's.

For this reason I feel that while the revolver's simplicity and safety make it an ideal newbie's gun, the mastery of the DA trigger is the sign of a serious handgun shooter; no yanking or jerking, just a smooth and steady pull. It shows that you've put effort into mastering your weapon. The revolver; "a more elegant weapon from a more civilized time. Not so clumsy or random as a blaster..." ...and a worthy sidearm for a Jedi.
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It is not my desire to reopen the revolver v. auto debate from the other thread; rather, I want to recognize Tamara's beautiful description of the zen of double action revolver shooting.

As an old, overweight guy with a white beard, bad knees and excess adiposal tissue who is also a mid-level kung fu student, I can tell you that Tamara's learning of the mastery of the double action trigger is very similar to the learning of a martial arts form. I am presently learning a form using double daggers. In order to learn it, I must first learn the basic moves, memorize the movements, then practice it again and again and again until everything becomes second nature. Then, my instructor makes me learn it again, this time with attention to tiny details I missed the first time but which can now be easily corrected. Then I continue to practice until I've got it right. When the form becomes precise and when I can do it right without conscious thought, I know I've put the time in and I'm getting cool results back. Learning a form is like DA revolver shooting or going to the police academy or being an expert in whatever you do in your life. If something is worth doing, then you must learn it completely, do it competently and put the effort in. Nothing in this life is earned by sloth.

Is this relevant to the mastery of the DA revolver? I think so, because shooting is a martial art. The aiming and firing of the weapon, the dumping of the spent cases properly without tying them up under the star and the smooth reload using the speedloader are all steps in the revolver "form". You learn them by practicing them over and over and deriving satisfaction from your achievement.

OK, I'll shut up now. I just think Tamara's description is really cool.

Bob
 

355sigfan

Moderator
Ah but some martial arts are better than others. Kung Fu is difficult and from what I have seen not very effective until you spent a lot of time in it. I would put money on a 1 year boxer over a 3 year Kung Fu student. I say this because I have a Shudo Kan Karate background and I have spared with Kung Fu students and was less than impressed. They had preaty forms but on the mat they were lacking. There are many styles of Kung Fu and maybe I saw one of the lesser effective styles. I am currently studing Judo and I am realizing that grappling is more important that stricking if you want to win. Just look at the UFC. Anyway my point is that is it worth learning a more complicated less effective art (revolver) when you could learn a better art. (auto)
PAT
 

Eric Larsen

New member
I will second, third and tenth the motion. Tamara, Sam and everyone else...DA only is hard! I will have to practice on the
TV BG's....where the h*ll did I put those snap caps. I appreciate
bringing this subject up again....Shoot well
 

Brian Busch

New member
You just don't get it Pat.

To say the Kung Fu guy would be beaten by a boxer. Lets see:

are we talking about a knock-down drag out? The KungFu guys gonna win. Why? Easy...the kung fu guy is gonna break things, take limbs out of joint, poke out eyeballs.

In a sparring match, its the boxer will win, 'cause there are rules. Sensei would be a little pissed if you took out some poor slobs eyeball, or crushed his windpipe on the mat.

Kinda like the stupid UFC. What a joke. Of course the takedown guys always beat the classic asian martial artists. They aren't allowed to really use their skills.

You have these narrow views that only apply to certain people under certain situations. You really need to look more at the big picture when it comes to things, like the whole revolver vs auto thing you are constantly rehashing. Try to look at things from others perspectives and with a more open mind; not a slam, just an observation I've noticed.
 
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Laz

New member
Pat, Tamara's comments stand on their own merits. Why do you insist of trying to become the center of every thread that has anything good to say about revolvers and revolver shooting? Would you chime in about autos in the middle of a thread about Zen and the Art of Archery? How about Zen and the Art of Motorcylce Maintenance? I think everyone knows your position vis a vis auto and revolvers by now.
 

C.R.Sam

New member
Martial arts.....prolonged entertainment.
Combat, armed or otherwise......quick death.

With exceptions of course.

Sam
 

355sigfan

Moderator
are we talking about a knock-down drag out? The KungFu guys gonna win. Why? Easy...the kung fu guy is gonna break things, take limbs out of joint, poke out eyeballs.
END

From one who has sparred with Kung Fu artists I don't see it. I see them flat on their back. Just because you have more tricks does not mean you can use them.
PAT
 

Brian Busch

New member
AGAIN, *sigh* SPARRING is not FIGHTING.

It's really like talking to a wall with you.

Do you REALLY think these guys are going to use their "tricks" on you sparring, when those tricks could and would maim or kill you???

I mean THINK about it! I've been involved in MA since I was 9, and I can guarantee you, you havent got a clue as to what you are talking about.
 

gumshoe4

New member
I'm sorry, Pat-I believe you've misconstrued something. The purpose of this thread was not to provide me with a forum to demonstrate my prowess (or more particularly, my lack of prowess) with martial arts, nor was it yet another auto v. revolver debate or Kung Fu v. Shotokan debate.

It was the recognition of a student of martial arts (TAMARA, Pat-not you and not me), how she came to be proficient in a particular venue of the art and her description of the process.

You obviously have learned a lot about kicks, strikes and so on in your martial arts. You're lacking only humility in recognizing that you are frail and egocentric. It's to your detriment as a person and I pity you. I also resent you twisting this thread to your own use.

I think I've said enough and I apologize to the others on the board for starting this up again.

Bob
 

355sigfan

Moderator
Brain your experienced in the martial arts great. I started when I was 15 you started when you were 9. I have studied Karate, Akido, Boxing and now Judo. I can tell you that your right there is a difference between sparing and fighting. However the moves you speak of like poking eyes and others are not going to save you if you can land them against a more skilled opponent. They are not a magic save you but technique. Try a poking a boxer in the eye when he is pummiling your head. The UFC has changed and they now have weight classes and time limits but before these rules came about grapplers still won. A good grappler will always beat a stand up fighter unless a lot of luck is involved. If you don't know that your expierence is lacking. As an Officer I have been in some fights on the street sounds like you have not.
PAT
 

355sigfan

Moderator
gumshoe4
Kung Fu v. Shotokan debate
END
Actually I studied Shudokan not Shotokan its only a small difference but one none the less. You say I am not humble, what do you base that on. I never said I was the best martial artist or that I was better than you. I only stated that I felt this style was better than that one. (Auto vs Revolver, Or Judo vs Katate) makes no difference. If people can handle different views then the are the ones that need to be more humble.
PAT
 

355sigfan

Moderator
juliet charley
Again your the first to start the personal attackes and you wonder why people respond it kind. And when they do you ask them what their problem is. Its time for you to grow up. I would put you one the ignore list but from time to time you say something that is worth listening too. So for now I will just have my BS filter on when ever you post.
PAT
 

Brian Busch

New member
Sig, with all due respect you know nothing about me, so please don't try to tell me what I know and don't know. How long have you been a LEO? Please take no offense, but I train with LEOs, and you come off as a rookie know it all. How many one-on-one street fights have you been in with a clearheaded, expierenced fighter?

None of these arts is better or worse than another. You are right, it is technique. And I can tell you from personal experience, you are 100% wrong. I'm not going to continue this as it is obvious you are not open to listening to what others have to say, and you are always right. I just hope you don't get seriously hurt before you realize how wrong you are.

Regards,
Brian
 
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