Reports of "Militia Takeover" in Oregon

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dakota.potts

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http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...ith_quiet.html#incart_river_mobileshort_index

There are reports that up to 150 armed militiamen have taken over the building for a national wildlife refuge in Oregon. There are some connections to the Bundy family, wherein apparently the younger sons of the family have either joined or are leading the militia in this case.

They are protesting the imprisonment of two ranchers convicted of arson for setting fires on federal lands. They claim the fire was used to control invasive species of plants, but regardless the fires caused damage.

The two ranchers were due to report to federal prison on Monday and have stated that they have no interest in refusing the order. They had some credit for time served and some say they have a legitimate grievance for having that time served extended.

I am hesitant to see how this plays out. I would say that, as a board that supports the second amendment, many of us support the fact that the people who hold the power to abolish or change government if necessary where government is found to be oppressive. However, the documents that spell that out also say that these uses of force should not include light transgressions, that grievances should be publicly stated, that all other forms of political power should be exhausted, etc. I really don't see that that's happening here. I don't know that I've seen any of the members representing bills in congress or lobbying for change or anything of that nature. I worry that this is just a militia looking for an opportunity to flex their muscle using the constitution as a crutch.

This is bad PR as it is, in my opinion. It makes militias look trigger happy and as though they're looking for a fight. I really hope this ends in a way that no violence or force is necessary to end it. I don't see it ending well any other way.
 
dakota.potts said:
They are protesting the imprisonment of two ranchers convicted of arson for setting fires on federal lands. They claim the fire was used to control invasive species of plants, but regardless the fires caused damage.

The two ranchers were due to report to federal prison on Monday and have stated that they have no interest in refusing the order. They had some credit for time served and some say they have a legitimate grievance for having that time served extended.
It's a very oddball situation.

They were convicted of arson, sentenced, served their sentences, and were released. THEN some genius decided that the minimum sentence for the offense of which they had been committed was five years, and they hadn't served five years. So ... back to the slammer.

It's not exactly double jeopardy, because they weren't charged and tried twice for the same crime. Nonetheless, to my layman's mind it seems to skirt awfully close to being double jeopardy. They accepted their original punishment, did their time, and were released. Recalling them to serve a longer sentence may technically be legal, but IMHO morally it stinks to high heaven.
 

gyvel

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This whole thing seems like a tempest in a teapot.

As far as I can determine from completely unbiased:rolleyes: and fair:rolleyes: MSN news articles:rolleyes:, they are unarmed* and, so far, there has been no violence, but boy, you should see some of the vitriolic comments left by readers about "rednecks," "gun nuts," "the NRA needs to be taken down," etc.

There are people in this country that truly hate guns and hate the idea of anyone having a gun. I just don't see how someone that vehemently anti gun is ever going to be persuaded that "guns and the NRA" aren't Satan incarnate.

It's starting to feel like the 60s and 70s again when the Vietnam War almost divided this country in two.

(*The last I heard; It could change at any minute.)
 

Duster340

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Treat these bozos the same way we treat any other protesters these days. Send in the cops wearing full riot gear, armoured vehicles, SWAT, maybe a little tear gas....and the media/news/press. Of course, the story must also be aired 24/7 on news channels, and interviews with various "experts" must be done to enlighten us. On the other hand, taking over a federal building must be some type of crime, so perhaps the tough guys should just be arrested. If they point weapons at our men and women law enforcement officers, they need to be taken out..... ;)

What's wrong with people nowadays?
 
As far as I can determine from completely unbiased and fair MSN news articles, they are unarmed* and, so far, there has been no violence,...

Everyone else is reporting that they are in fact armed. e.g.,...

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/03/us/oregon-wildlife-refuge-protest/index.html
Ammon Bundy said that the group in Oregon was armed, but that he would not describe it as a militia. He declined to say how many people were with him, telling CNN on Sunday that giving that information might jeopardize "operational security."

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2016/01/drama_in_burns_ends_with_quiet.html
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/01/0...a-occupy-oregon-wildlife-refuge-building.html
https://www.rt.com/usa/327762-armed-bundy-militia-oregon-ranchers/
 

dajowi

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It appears that only the liberal media, (Portland/Eugene) is referring to the group as a militia. But perhaps there are others.
 

TXAZ

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I'll respectively disagree with Duster post that peaceful protest should be met with potentially lethal force.
That's one of the very reason that this country was formed, was allowing peaceful protest of the government, petitioning and redress of complaints. It's what the Bill of Rights is all about.
 
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Duster340

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"I'm concerned that some believe that peaceful protest should be met with potentially lethal force.
That's one of the very reason that this country was formed, was allowing peaceful protest of the government, petitioning and redress of complaints. It's what the Bill of Rights is all about."


Exactly man, much change has come from peaceful protests over our great county's history. (My intended sarcasm did not translate well in text.) Now armed thugs/clowns taking over a federal building does not constitute a peaceful protest imo. These fools are one negligent discharge away from a gun fight with the dedicated law enforcement folks that get called upon to handle situation.
 
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TXAZ

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I guess duster that we'll have to agree to disagree.
The insulation of the government from the real world is amazing, with "administrative procedures" effectively removing Constitutionally given rights, ridiculous processes intended to make redress difficult / impossible, and corruption that should result in very long jail sentences for bureaucrats, regardless if they were elected, appointed or just employed.

I'm far from anti-government, but much of this makes me feel like I'm back in the Middle East or East Asia again.

No country can get better until they see, admit and legitimately address what the problems are.
 

BarryLee

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Whether it’s these folks or the BLM crowd it is only a matter of time before one of these “protest” turns violent. I fear in an effort to accommodate people and protect their rights we’ve gone too far. When people take over Federal Buildings, close public streets, shut down private businesses, delay airport traffic or otherwise infringe on the freedom of others we have a problem. Yes, the right to peaceful protest is important and must be protected, but that doesn’t give these people the freedom to infringe on the rights of others.
 

TXAZ

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I'll agree to that BarryLee. There need to be rules that EVERYONE is bound to, including bureaucrats and citizenry. Mowing groups down (by any side) is not part of that.
 

gyvel

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I don't see this ending well. The media is whipping up the usual hysterical frenzy over it; many are making judgment calls without all the facts. There will be no winners in this debacle.
 

Duster340

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I'll agree to that BarryLee. There need to be rules that EVERYONE is bound to, including bureaucrats and citizenry. Mowing groups down (by any side) is not part of that.


/\ /\

X2
 

WyMark

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It's this part that is the real concern:

In a video posted to Facebook on Thursday, Ammon Bundy called on the members of “different militia groups” to participate in the protest on Saturday.

Here's a link to the video: https://www.facebook.com/bundyranch/videos/937487166328092/

It's this "call to arms" that will create all the problems, just like it did in Nevada with this guy's dad Clive. There are quite a few fringe militia/nazi/white power/anti-govmint and other hate groups in that part of the country, and many are going to converge on that building, all heavily armed.

And you can bet that media satellite trucks are converging at the same time. This needs live 24 hour coverage on CNN in order to turn into a full-scale circus.
 

buckhorn_cortez

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Treat these bozos the same way we treat any other protesters these days. Send in the cops wearing full riot gear, armoured vehicles, SWAT, maybe a little tear gas....and the media/news/press

But..that's not how any other protesters get treated. Treat them like the Ferguson, MO and Baltimore, MD protesters. Tell the police to stand down because these people have the right to protest, riot, etc.

That's equal treatment.
 

kilimanjaro

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Taking over a federal office is not a smart idea, especially while armed. These guys are going to end up in a federal don't-drop-the-soap prison. If some moron lets off a round, it's going to be much worse.

The leftist media will justify another Waco, that's their job, and they've already started doing it. The rightist extremists came armed to a protest, they've fallen for the trap, no question.
 
There is no trap, LOL, the right wing extremists are doing this on their own volition with forethought. They came prepared, LOL.

You can't blame the media for these folks doing what they are doing.
 

kilimanjaro

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It's a trap of their own making, didn't make that clear.

But don't delude yourself about the media, they are calling this 'terrorism', and demanding National Guard turnout like in Ferguson, just to prove the government isn't racist. They will escalate this given half a chance.
 
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