Remington Model 11 Bolt crack

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dyl

New member
I've got a Model 11 with a cracked bolt at the semi-circular cutouts. It's possible someone was shooting heavy loads/slugs (scope installed) without changing the friction ring settings.

I've started looking for a replacement bolt which may be expensive.

I wonder: are any bolts from other similar shotguns compatible: such as the Savage 720, Browning A5?

Any other reasons that could cause this?

The fiber washer is still present and intact. It's not exactly cushy but I suspect they never are.
 
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dyl

New member
Another Question

Yet another question.

If I have a round base firing pin, but purchase a bolt meant for a square base, is there a way for them to be compatible? I still have the firing pin guide/locking block
 
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dyl

New member
I'm now convinced that the current bolt actually comes from a Savage 720 because it has a firing pin guide block in the rear. None of Numrich's diagrams for either the Model 11 or Savage 720 / 755 show this part but the Savage has it listed as available for purchase, so that's why I think it is so.

I've ordered a stripped bolt for a Remington 11, let's hope it is compatible with the rest of the parts currently in the bolt (especially if it's truly from a Savage)
 
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Dixie Gunsmithing

Moderator Emeritus
Remington and Savage made some slight modifications to parts over time on the Browning patent. However, I would say that the major parts are the same dimensionally, or close to it, as you've found. Since it is a Remington, you can be sure the bolt you ordered will fit the frame, but I'm not sure about the locking bolt, bolt handle, firing pin, etc.. You may have to order all of that. Also, you might find these parts at a better price on eBay, if you keep a watch for them, even an entire bolt.
 
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dyl

New member
Thanks Dixie Gunsmithing,

My #1 plan fell through, Hoosier Gunworks cancelled my order because it turns out they had used up the Remington bolt to fix one in the shop but didn't update their system....until they tried to send me one. :( well at least they didn't charge me for it.

My new Plan A: I've got a lead on a complete Remington bolt assembly on Ebay but competition looks stiff. I'll know Saturday if I can get it reasonably.

Plan B: I could try order a Savage 720 bolt stripped, see if the parts on the existing bolt of unknown make will transfer over. May have to order an older style (square) firing pin too.

Minimum cost $70, max ~160. Dang it! I'll keep looking
 
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F. Guffey

New member
My oldest Model 11 is 1905, it is an auto loader. When I needed parts I found complete shotguns that were cheaper than parts. The best price was on a shotgun someone drilled and tapped for a scope.

I had a receiver with ordinance stamps and no parts.

F. Guffey
 
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dyl

New member
UPDATE - I purchased a complete bolt assembly that came with the locking block off of ebay. It just came in a couple days ago and I've started scrubbing it. It seems well-used, worn smooth, plenty of crusty carbon on it - but no cracks to be found :) and it has "Remington Model 11" printed on it, and room for a round firing pin.

The cracked bolt that is currently in the shotgun does *not* have Remington markings on it, which further makes me think it is a Savage 720 bolt. It also needs a firing pin adapter to hold the rear of a round firing pin in place or else it will fly out. That's why that piece was available on the Numrich's under the Savage 720 but not under the Remington Model 11.

I may have more Savage 720 pieces around the magazine tube too, there is no "sleeve" as the Remington 11 has according to the Numrich's diagram.

- This is just for future reference in case others have the same problem. It's good to know that I can substitute some Savage 720 parts - at least the bolt assembly anyways.

I've done a good bit of what i can by hand as far as cleaning, I plan to hit it with some brake cleaner or Carb cleaner this weekend, then put it all together and see what happens.
 
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Dixie Gunsmithing

Moderator Emeritus
The brake rings on the magazine tube need to match the model 11, as if they don't, when firing, it could drive the bolt back too hard, while locked with the barrel, and will most likely bust the Buffer (fiber cushion) riveted in the rear of the receiver. It can even crack the rear of the receiver. You should have a round splined bronze brake collar, which has a steel flat spring wrapped around it, and another steel ring, with a bevel on one side. If the buffer cushion is bad, you'll want to change that, and it is riveted in.

For most game loads, the steel ring goes in front of the spring, with the bevel toward the bronze brake collar, which goes on next, then the barrel in front of that. For light or low power shells, shift the steel ring to behind the recoil spring, with the bevel toward the receiver. Don't forget to change the rings back, for heavy loads. I store mine set for heavy.

Last, make sure the outside of the magazine tube is free from rust, by giving it a good scrub with steel wool until its bright, then lightly oil it.
 
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tangolima

New member
The buffer is attached to the rear of the receiver with a rivet. If the buffer is gone or is about to be gone, it is a good idea to remove the rivet. It is safer that way.

Guy may be eager to show his friend the cool long recoil mechanism of a Browning A5, of which Remington is a clone. He would rest the stock on the floor, grab the barrel and give it a forceful shove downward. The bolt hits the rivet, and rivet will push the firing pin out of the bolt face. If there happens to be a round in the chamber, the poor guy may be missing his head.

-TL
 
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F. Guffey

New member
tangolima, Not sure, but. I believe stories can collide, I believe Winchester had a problem as described. I believe the barrel had what looked like an expanded metal grip on the barrel.

Then there was the rest of the story, Winchester had to get into the auto loading shot gun business and Browning was no longer there.

F. Guffey
 
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tangolima

New member
Browning A5 doesn't have the buffer. There is a hole at the rear of the receiver to accommodate the firing pin, so it doesn't have the problem.

A5 design was produced by Remington and savage, but with some small modifications. The riveted buffer was one of the mods.

Browning's design has op handle to move the bolt back to chamber a round. One is not supposed to move the barrel, but it can still be done if he so desires.

Winchester widow maker is another story. It is their version of long recoil. It has op handle to move the barrel back to chamber a round. Apparently they couldn't copy Browning's design so blatantly. It is down right unsafe.

We learned this at school. The instruction is to remove the buffer and rivet should there be any doubt, and drill blind hole at the back of receiver as in A5.

-TL
 
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Dixie Gunsmithing

Moderator Emeritus
Winchester could not easily get around Brownings patent, with their model 11. Funny enough, I remember seeing that Winchester did have a patent for a bolt handle for the 11, but never used it. They ended up knurling a section of the barrel, which they also had a patent for.

If I can find my patent CD's, I'll try to find it. The bolt handle had a round knob that would remind you of a bolt action rifle knob.

Winchester's worst mistake was not accepting John Browning's deal for the Auto-5. However, we all may be lucky, because they may not have produced the shotgun, as their thinking at the time was, that it would rob sales from the new model 12 that would soon be coming out. That, and the president of Winchester, T G Bennett, did not want to pay Browning royalties.
 
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tangolima

New member
Mr. Browning changed his business model with A5. Before that he always sold his designs out right to Winchester. Perhaps realizing that his design always sold well, he started asking for royalty per unit sold. Winchester didn't like it and that marked the disintegration of their partnership.

Pulling the barrel to chamber a round, either with handle or grabbing it, is dubious indeed. The recoil spring is very stout. It is always quite a chore.

I myself have always wanted to own an A5. I am still kicking myself for not taking that old beater on the local shop's bargain rack. $250.

-TL
 
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