Remington lawsuit settlement
- Thread starter FITASC
- Start date
shootniron
New member
My goodness...this thing has dragged on for decades...
That is your choice, and the odds are in your favor. But I've seen the pre-2007 triggers fail several times. Remington made about 7 million of these rifles. Less than 1/2 of 1 percent will ever do this. But 100% of them are a flawed design and it is just a matter of time and bad luck before it eventually happens to your rifle, or any rifle made 1946-2006. Even .5% of 7 million is a significant number.
Mine is 43 years old and has failed twice in all of those years, and 20 years between incidents.
The decision to stay with a known defective trigger design was made 70 years ago in 1946 and those responsible are all dead now. The current Remington management and company isn't to blame in my opinion. I replaced mine with an aftermarket trigger a few years back after the 2nd trigger failure. Not to bash Remington, but I'd not own one with a factory trigger. Not even the new one they are offering to put in for free. Not that it is dangerous, it just isn't a good trigger.
shootniron
New member
What jmr40 says is true...some of them will certainly do it...I don't own one, but if I did...it would go back for service.
Double Naught Spy
New member
I think this is just the newest recall. The X mark triggers came about as a result of previous court cases over the decades, but they too were flawed.
There had been a previous recall for the original triggers.http://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/08/want-your-remington-gun-fixed-heres-what-you-need-to-know.html
http://www.cnbc.com/2014/12/05/remington-to-replace-millions-of-model-700-rifle-triggers.html
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
Joeb,
There was a post here some time back that included a very good diagram or animation that described the problem very well and explained why this is an issue for all rifles with these triggers. I highly recommend you do some more research on the subject. Every time you have a round in that rifles chamber you are rolling the dice IMO. It may be a low chance, but if they will fix it for free, why not?
There was a post here some time back that included a very good diagram or animation that described the problem very well and explained why this is an issue for all rifles with these triggers. I highly recommend you do some more research on the subject. Every time you have a round in that rifles chamber you are rolling the dice IMO. It may be a low chance, but if they will fix it for free, why not?
Knightsofnee
New member
The judge overseeing the case keeps telling Remington to keep sending out recall notices because he can't understand why hundreds and hundreds of thousands of 700s haven't been returned for work. He can't seem to get it through his head that either:A) people are happy with their rifle, or B) If they're not they'd rather put in an aftermarket trigger rather than risk whatever lawyer design Remington has to put in.
joe sixgun
New member
Amen to that Knight.
I have an old 700 ADL with the factory trigger: it has never malfunctioned but I do have concerns that eventually it might. For now I'm not using it, but my plan is to install a really good aftermarket trigger myself. First of all I'm not really confident that any trigger Remington would put in it would suit me. I'm sure their new trigger is safe, given events, but lawsuit driven engineering just doesn't inspire confidence for me.
The bigger issue however, is is just that I don't want it shipping. Two ways then I have to go to dealer to retrieve it... if it makes it back, whenever it makes back. Damaged in shipping, it's certainly possible, and it wouldn't be the first item I had destroyed in a brown truck. For the cost of a new trigger, I much prefer to retain my rifle and assume the responsibility for myself. Frankly, I trust me more than them.
The bigger issue however, is is just that I don't want it shipping. Two ways then I have to go to dealer to retrieve it... if it makes it back, whenever it makes back. Damaged in shipping, it's certainly possible, and it wouldn't be the first item I had destroyed in a brown truck. For the cost of a new trigger, I much prefer to retain my rifle and assume the responsibility for myself. Frankly, I trust me more than them.
ammo.crafter
New member
700 trigger
Any known defect with the model 600?
Any known defect with the model 600?
This is a hot issue right now. In my shop and in the gun stores around me I am hearing about this now about 4 times a week.
As was stated above, there are many concerns about this "resolution"
#1 it is pretty much 100% certain that the new (3rd) trigger that Remington is going to put in will be 'law-suit proof" which may mean it will be safe to a point of being marksmanship proof too.
Is that a fact?
I don't know. Neither does anyone else I know right now.
So far I have not had a single person come to me with one of the newest triggers, so I have not seen one yet. No Remington owner I know personally is willing to chance it.
#2 Remington has a policy that any gun they get will come back "within Remington's specs" no matter what.
So if you have a re-barreled gun with a McMillion, Kriger, or Lilja barrel on it it will come back to you with a Remington barrel. I didn't believe that was true until 2 Remingtons sent in by Rocky Mountain Sports in Riverton did come back with their custom barrels replaced. I was a bit shocked. Same with stocks, muzzle breaks and so on. Have some custom engraving? Tuff $--t!
I do not know if the rifles come back and your parts are returned, or if Remington just tosses them. I talked to the men working the gun counter, not the customers themselves, but I was assured that the customers were less then happy.
#3 As was stated above there have been millions of M-700s made so many owners I have spoken to have keyed into that fact. If millions are returned for this service, how long is the turnaround going to be? No one knows.
Remington has a fairly bad reputation for customer service already and has had that rep for many years. Now if we throw in the fact that you may be in a line that is over 1,000,000 long or maybe a lot longer, it is a bit discouraging.
They may put in a new trigger for free and they may even pay the shipping, but people who have had to wait 2-6 months for service on guns in the past when there was no recall are not all that willing to send their rifle in when they are potentially one of 6-million, and they may fall into that line about anywhere.
All in all, I can find no good news in this.
It seems this chicken has come home to roost.
I used to be a gunsmith at a Remington service center (back when Remington still did that) Even when Remington paid me, I was unimpressed with them and I had to tell customers the truth.
I have been telling people for 40 years now to buy Winchesters, Rugers Savages, CZs and Howas. I don't recommend Tikka because they are the only company I have found with worse customer service than Remington, (as in absolutely none) but other than Tikka, I tell anyone who asked me to buy anything other than Remington.
As was stated above, there are many concerns about this "resolution"
#1 it is pretty much 100% certain that the new (3rd) trigger that Remington is going to put in will be 'law-suit proof" which may mean it will be safe to a point of being marksmanship proof too.
Is that a fact?
I don't know. Neither does anyone else I know right now.
So far I have not had a single person come to me with one of the newest triggers, so I have not seen one yet. No Remington owner I know personally is willing to chance it.
#2 Remington has a policy that any gun they get will come back "within Remington's specs" no matter what.
So if you have a re-barreled gun with a McMillion, Kriger, or Lilja barrel on it it will come back to you with a Remington barrel. I didn't believe that was true until 2 Remingtons sent in by Rocky Mountain Sports in Riverton did come back with their custom barrels replaced. I was a bit shocked. Same with stocks, muzzle breaks and so on. Have some custom engraving? Tuff $--t!
I do not know if the rifles come back and your parts are returned, or if Remington just tosses them. I talked to the men working the gun counter, not the customers themselves, but I was assured that the customers were less then happy.
#3 As was stated above there have been millions of M-700s made so many owners I have spoken to have keyed into that fact. If millions are returned for this service, how long is the turnaround going to be? No one knows.
Remington has a fairly bad reputation for customer service already and has had that rep for many years. Now if we throw in the fact that you may be in a line that is over 1,000,000 long or maybe a lot longer, it is a bit discouraging.
They may put in a new trigger for free and they may even pay the shipping, but people who have had to wait 2-6 months for service on guns in the past when there was no recall are not all that willing to send their rifle in when they are potentially one of 6-million, and they may fall into that line about anywhere.
All in all, I can find no good news in this.
It seems this chicken has come home to roost.
I used to be a gunsmith at a Remington service center (back when Remington still did that) Even when Remington paid me, I was unimpressed with them and I had to tell customers the truth.
I have been telling people for 40 years now to buy Winchesters, Rugers Savages, CZs and Howas. I don't recommend Tikka because they are the only company I have found with worse customer service than Remington, (as in absolutely none) but other than Tikka, I tell anyone who asked me to buy anything other than Remington.
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johnwilliamson062
Moderator
Are there really many highly modified guns with stock triggers?
There isn't a single Remington product I am interested. I owned 22-250 700 for a short period of time and I didn't like it.
> The judge overseeing the case keeps telling
> Remington to keep sending out recall notices
To whom?
When did Remington start including a registration card in the packaging?
How many people got the card (or the box, for that matter) when they bought the gun at the store?
How many people bothered to send in the registration card?
How many of those guns are in the original purchasers' hands? (considering some of them were sold seventy years ago...)
Are they going to work some deal with the ATF to identify original purchasers since 1968? There won't be any sales records before that.
Some of those guns may have changed hands on a 4473... but that would also require access to Federal records.
> Remington to keep sending out recall notices
To whom?
When did Remington start including a registration card in the packaging?
How many people got the card (or the box, for that matter) when they bought the gun at the store?
How many people bothered to send in the registration card?
How many of those guns are in the original purchasers' hands? (considering some of them were sold seventy years ago...)
Are they going to work some deal with the ATF to identify original purchasers since 1968? There won't be any sales records before that.
Some of those guns may have changed hands on a 4473... but that would also require access to Federal records.
I bought a new M700, ADL (syn-stocked), in .223 a couple of months ago, and I'll add what I've found with the rifle regarding this trigger concern.
FIRST, when checking with Remington (website and serial # check; easy BTW) about whether my trigger falls under the lawsuit deal, I found that it does not, and that my new 700 was made in 2017 (futuristic or what!). Guess I'm good to go, and have been... but, thinking Timney from time to Timeney crosses my thoughts. Not yet, though.
SECOND, my rifle came (NIB) with all the 200th anniversary "Big Green" labels and manual, along with the square, slick-card label hanging from the trigger guard telling me that my new rifle has the X-MARK PRO trigger. That's the one with the set screw adjustment (as I understand it) able to be adjusted without taking the action from the stock. My new 700 does not have that trigger, as I found out when realizing my trigger absolutely needed to go on a diet (about 6 or 7 lbs. overweight, or so it sure seemed). I found, after taking the action from the stock, that my new 700 has the older x-mark trigger (at least that's what I determined it is after a web-search) and found it very easy to adjust.
After picking out the factory loc-tite type material, I only had to back out one allen set screw (front of trigger unit, behind the mag well), to get the trigger @ between 3, and 3.5 lbs (this back-out adjustment left the set screw flush with the trigger housing). I like it there, so I sealed that set-screw with blue loc-tite and have been good with it since. I'll check the sealant again later this year to make sure it's still good.
THIRD, this rifle also came with a registration form (haven't filled it out yet; online registration available, too) and a limited two year warranty. I bought this rifle through gunbroker, so I got the box and all the paperwork on the purchase through my FFL guy. It was packed and shipped very well in the factory box.
I have two other ADLs, both in '06, and I believe they both fall into this legal fiasco. One is a vintage, walnut stocked, 1968 model, and the other is a syn-stocked model from the mid-1990's. Both of those rifles have had their triggers adjusted by a professional gunsmith whom I've known, and have used his services, for near 20 years. I like and trust his work, and the adjustments he made on my old 700 hunting rifles. I guess I need to visit with him to get his angle on the lawsuit business. I, too, have been thinking about Timney's lately for those two rifles.
If I come to the decision to change out triggers, I'll just do it myself; seems easy enough. I won't be sending my rifles back to Remington, as that, from what some of the talk is here, seems like it'd be a REAL cluster. From some of the research I've done, one thing sticks out from the trigger deal from the start, so many years ago with Walker's trigger. And that was a literal nickel's worth of hardening on one of the components on the original design that was left out to save some money... hindsight. Correct me if I'm wrong here with that nickel's worth of hardening (as I remember it), as this is just my nickel's worth of comment.
Hope this helps a bit.
FIRST, when checking with Remington (website and serial # check; easy BTW) about whether my trigger falls under the lawsuit deal, I found that it does not, and that my new 700 was made in 2017 (futuristic or what!). Guess I'm good to go, and have been... but, thinking Timney from time to Timeney crosses my thoughts. Not yet, though.
SECOND, my rifle came (NIB) with all the 200th anniversary "Big Green" labels and manual, along with the square, slick-card label hanging from the trigger guard telling me that my new rifle has the X-MARK PRO trigger. That's the one with the set screw adjustment (as I understand it) able to be adjusted without taking the action from the stock. My new 700 does not have that trigger, as I found out when realizing my trigger absolutely needed to go on a diet (about 6 or 7 lbs. overweight, or so it sure seemed). I found, after taking the action from the stock, that my new 700 has the older x-mark trigger (at least that's what I determined it is after a web-search) and found it very easy to adjust.
After picking out the factory loc-tite type material, I only had to back out one allen set screw (front of trigger unit, behind the mag well), to get the trigger @ between 3, and 3.5 lbs (this back-out adjustment left the set screw flush with the trigger housing). I like it there, so I sealed that set-screw with blue loc-tite and have been good with it since. I'll check the sealant again later this year to make sure it's still good.
THIRD, this rifle also came with a registration form (haven't filled it out yet; online registration available, too) and a limited two year warranty. I bought this rifle through gunbroker, so I got the box and all the paperwork on the purchase through my FFL guy. It was packed and shipped very well in the factory box.
I have two other ADLs, both in '06, and I believe they both fall into this legal fiasco. One is a vintage, walnut stocked, 1968 model, and the other is a syn-stocked model from the mid-1990's. Both of those rifles have had their triggers adjusted by a professional gunsmith whom I've known, and have used his services, for near 20 years. I like and trust his work, and the adjustments he made on my old 700 hunting rifles. I guess I need to visit with him to get his angle on the lawsuit business. I, too, have been thinking about Timney's lately for those two rifles.
If I come to the decision to change out triggers, I'll just do it myself; seems easy enough. I won't be sending my rifles back to Remington, as that, from what some of the talk is here, seems like it'd be a REAL cluster. From some of the research I've done, one thing sticks out from the trigger deal from the start, so many years ago with Walker's trigger. And that was a literal nickel's worth of hardening on one of the components on the original design that was left out to save some money... hindsight. Correct me if I'm wrong here with that nickel's worth of hardening (as I remember it), as this is just my nickel's worth of comment.
Hope this helps a bit.
Cheapshooter
New member
Not touching my 700 7MM Mag. Already had trigger work, muzzle break, stock fitting with Decellerator pad on the old aftermarket very light weight synthetic stock. Nothing they would do will improve my 3/4 M.O.A. groups with Remington Premier Scirocco 150gr. Or the 1 1/4" groups with plain old Remington Kore Lokt.
Thinking letting them mess with it would be a big mistake.
Thinking letting them mess with it would be a big mistake.