'Reman'(remanufacturered) vs 'Reload'
- Thread starter USNRet93
- Start date
Jim Watson
New member
Remanufactured = commercial reload. Look at the headstamps. Are the remanufactured mixed and the new the same?
Don't know, I'll look.
Reman various, Win, Fed, ‘luger’, some FM...just finished all 1300 rounds, no failures, no problem, gee, went fast. Fun tho. Really likin’ The G17...copy to ‘why I hate Glock’ haters thread...
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"re-man" and "factory re-man" are terms that we use that are not necessarily rigidly defined, but basically mean that some for-profit outfit that isn't a top-tier known ammo production business such as Federal, CCI, Remington, UMC, Winchester/Olin, Hornady or any of a dozen other known ammunition businesses has taken used brass, once or many times fired, and handloaded or reloaded that brass, packaged it up and offered it for sale.
Freedom Munitions is one of the best known of these factory re-man outfits. Perhaps one of the biggest and most successful would best be called a former re-man outfit: Black Hills Ammunition. Black Hills started decades ago offering "factory reloads" and I first ran in to them in the late 80's, I bought .38, .357 and 10mm ammo from them, loose packed in to 50-rd cube shaped boxes, mixed headstamps. It would not be accurate to call Black Hills a re-man outfit these days, because they parlayed their early success in to a top-tier "boutique" outfit, yet another term we use.
Boutique ammo manufacturers tend to offer very specific certain items and are usually smaller in scale to the big boys. Think Black Hills, Underwood, Buffalo Bore, Double Tap and the like.
The big dogs, the boutique guys and the factory re-man outfits all have one thing in common -- they are licensed to manufacture and sell ammunition. As far as I know, that does NOT hold them to any particular standard, but it does make them legal. Only some of them actually work with SAAMI, who guards the actual industry standards. I don't know much about any of the known ammo manufacturer's relationships with SAAMI, but I can tell you from personal experience (and my obvious personal opinion) that Buffalo Bore in particular seems to throw a middle finger to SAAMI constantly, and I find that absurd. But if I have to say something nice... Buffalo Bore is good enough to be very much up front with that position.
Freedom Munitions came to be after the massive success of X-Treme plated bullets, and it's been my opinion and many others that they got caught up in the ammo and component panic following the Sandy Hook tragedy and they grew too fast and shipped too much ammo and their QC fell drastically. Freedom started out utilizing used brass and then shortly moved to new production brass... and we have seen quality problems with their new production brass. Freedom Munitions in new brass with a F-M headstamp would likely NOT be properly defined or labeled "factory re-man", as the brass is new. However the ammo is still suspect.
I wouldn't shoot any Freedom Munitions given to me. I would have serious personal reservations selling it to others without full disclosure. I have no problem whatsoever admitting that I carry a large personal bias against Freedom Munitions ammo, and I freely admit that I have never spent one dime of my own money on it.
If I had more free time on my hands, I would love to compile the mounting evidence that their product is suspect, but doing so would start to look like some kind of a personal vendetta. I can also admit that the same amount of web searching can show you tens of dozens of happy customers, all of which can report their experience being 5 boxes to 12 cases with no failures or problems in their experience.
I have spent countless hours participating in active forums all over the web and I've seen way, way, WAY too many first hand accounts of BAD Freedom Munitions ammo. I can say that I haven't heard any cases were Freedom Munitions turned their back on anyone who registered a complaint with their ammo, but my guns, my fingers, my face and my friends and family are far more important to me than the success of Freedom Munitions.
Freedom Munitions and/or X-Treme Bullets have spent the last year or more than a year going through different forms of bankruptcy. I have had less than stellar transactions with X-Treme over the last two years. I continue to really love X-Treme plated bullets, but I believe their business is going in to the toilet.
And I won't shoot Freedom Munitions at any cost. If someone gave it to me for free, I would offer it to someone else with full disclosure, but it would never go to anyone close to me.
Freedom Munitions is one of the best known of these factory re-man outfits. Perhaps one of the biggest and most successful would best be called a former re-man outfit: Black Hills Ammunition. Black Hills started decades ago offering "factory reloads" and I first ran in to them in the late 80's, I bought .38, .357 and 10mm ammo from them, loose packed in to 50-rd cube shaped boxes, mixed headstamps. It would not be accurate to call Black Hills a re-man outfit these days, because they parlayed their early success in to a top-tier "boutique" outfit, yet another term we use.
Boutique ammo manufacturers tend to offer very specific certain items and are usually smaller in scale to the big boys. Think Black Hills, Underwood, Buffalo Bore, Double Tap and the like.
The big dogs, the boutique guys and the factory re-man outfits all have one thing in common -- they are licensed to manufacture and sell ammunition. As far as I know, that does NOT hold them to any particular standard, but it does make them legal. Only some of them actually work with SAAMI, who guards the actual industry standards. I don't know much about any of the known ammo manufacturer's relationships with SAAMI, but I can tell you from personal experience (and my obvious personal opinion) that Buffalo Bore in particular seems to throw a middle finger to SAAMI constantly, and I find that absurd. But if I have to say something nice... Buffalo Bore is good enough to be very much up front with that position.
Freedom Munitions came to be after the massive success of X-Treme plated bullets, and it's been my opinion and many others that they got caught up in the ammo and component panic following the Sandy Hook tragedy and they grew too fast and shipped too much ammo and their QC fell drastically. Freedom started out utilizing used brass and then shortly moved to new production brass... and we have seen quality problems with their new production brass. Freedom Munitions in new brass with a F-M headstamp would likely NOT be properly defined or labeled "factory re-man", as the brass is new. However the ammo is still suspect.
I wouldn't shoot any Freedom Munitions given to me. I would have serious personal reservations selling it to others without full disclosure. I have no problem whatsoever admitting that I carry a large personal bias against Freedom Munitions ammo, and I freely admit that I have never spent one dime of my own money on it.
If I had more free time on my hands, I would love to compile the mounting evidence that their product is suspect, but doing so would start to look like some kind of a personal vendetta. I can also admit that the same amount of web searching can show you tens of dozens of happy customers, all of which can report their experience being 5 boxes to 12 cases with no failures or problems in their experience.
I have spent countless hours participating in active forums all over the web and I've seen way, way, WAY too many first hand accounts of BAD Freedom Munitions ammo. I can say that I haven't heard any cases were Freedom Munitions turned their back on anyone who registered a complaint with their ammo, but my guns, my fingers, my face and my friends and family are far more important to me than the success of Freedom Munitions.
Freedom Munitions and/or X-Treme Bullets have spent the last year or more than a year going through different forms of bankruptcy. I have had less than stellar transactions with X-Treme over the last two years. I continue to really love X-Treme plated bullets, but I believe their business is going in to the toilet.
And I won't shoot Freedom Munitions at any cost. If someone gave it to me for free, I would offer it to someone else with full disclosure, but it would never go to anyone close to me.
Cheapshooter
New member
To boil down Sevens lengthy, and well detailed description.
"Reload"=some guy with varying type of reloading equipment reloading used ammo casses in his basement to varying degrees of quality control.
" Remanufactured "=Some guy with varying type of more sophisticated equipment reloading a lot of used ammo cases in some sort of commercial metal building to varying degree of quality control.
New brass = new ammo
Used brass = remanufactured /reloaded ammo
As was mentioned, the big difference is that those selling "reman" ammo will have a Federal license. Again, as mentioned, this doesn't hold them to a standard for their ammo, but what it does mean is that they are a Federally licensed business, to make and sell ammo. This means they will have insurance.
Your neighbor may make the world's finest ammo in his garage, but its unlikely he has insurance to cover his ammo "business", or is an incorporated company with liability coverage on his products. SO, if something bad happens, and it is the fault of the ammo, who do you think is better prepared to "make the customer whole again"??
I don't find Buffalo Bore's telling SAMMI to go pound sand absurd, I find it amusing, and very American. SAAMI is not the law. SAAMI is not a government regulatory agency. SAAMI is a group of industry member companies who voluntarily belong and abide by their standards. SAAMI pressure standards are not immutable laws of nature, nor are they the legal laws of government. They are standards mutually agreed on, by SAAMI members to keep both the shooting public and the industry, safe.
However, they are not the only safe path, as Buffalo Bore and a handful of others realize. Buffalo Bore won't tell you the pressure of their loads. They won't tell you the powder change or formula. They don't HAVE to. It's proprietary information. What they will tell you, very clearly, is what guns their ammo is safe in. And that it is not considered safe in anything else.
I find that attitude rather refreshing. I also enjoy Ruger's "no written warranty" policy.
Used brass = remanufactured /reloaded ammo
As was mentioned, the big difference is that those selling "reman" ammo will have a Federal license. Again, as mentioned, this doesn't hold them to a standard for their ammo, but what it does mean is that they are a Federally licensed business, to make and sell ammo. This means they will have insurance.
Your neighbor may make the world's finest ammo in his garage, but its unlikely he has insurance to cover his ammo "business", or is an incorporated company with liability coverage on his products. SO, if something bad happens, and it is the fault of the ammo, who do you think is better prepared to "make the customer whole again"??
I don't find Buffalo Bore's telling SAMMI to go pound sand absurd, I find it amusing, and very American. SAAMI is not the law. SAAMI is not a government regulatory agency. SAAMI is a group of industry member companies who voluntarily belong and abide by their standards. SAAMI pressure standards are not immutable laws of nature, nor are they the legal laws of government. They are standards mutually agreed on, by SAAMI members to keep both the shooting public and the industry, safe.
However, they are not the only safe path, as Buffalo Bore and a handful of others realize. Buffalo Bore won't tell you the pressure of their loads. They won't tell you the powder change or formula. They don't HAVE to. It's proprietary information. What they will tell you, very clearly, is what guns their ammo is safe in. And that it is not considered safe in anything else.
I find that attitude rather refreshing. I also enjoy Ruger's "no written warranty" policy.
Spats McGee
Administrator
DING! DING! We have a winner!
I grew up reloading shotgun shells for bird hunting, and I'm perfectly to happy to shoot reloads/reman ammo for practice and fun, if one of two conditions is met: (1) The reloader is someone I know and trust; or (2) it's a commercial remanufacturer whose online reviews don't scare me. The only one I'm absolutely not shooting is Bubba's ZipLoc Bag of Hot Handloads, sold at a gun show near you.
Sevens, thanks for your comments. It's been about five years since I bought Freedom Munitions ammo but I ran 2,500 rounds through a Beretta 92FS and only ever had one stovepipe. No idea why, but other than that, it was good for plinking. I just ran the last of it through that same pistol about three months ago and when I replaced the ammo, I used a local FFL buddy who got me a competitive deal on a more, "upper class" manufacturer.
Since Freedom Munitions filed their bankruptcy, I've been reticent to buy from them, if only because I know how this kind of even can adversely affect a business' quality controls and materials purchasing decisions.
--Wag--
Since Freedom Munitions filed their bankruptcy, I've been reticent to buy from them, if only because I know how this kind of even can adversely affect a business' quality controls and materials purchasing decisions.
--Wag--
I have been an avid Xtreme bullet buyer nearly since they first hit the market so I was paying attention when they debuted Freedom Munitions. If you are familiar with Xtreme's website, they've always used large, hi-res, in your face pictures all over the front page. When they debuted Freedom Munitions, they showed a huge pile of newly made 9mm ammo, bright as the surface of the sun and gleaming, a beautiful sight -- but also sooooo easy to see a reverse primer in one round. It was obvious and funny, embarrassing, all of that.
Folks on the Facebook page let 'em have it, they were quick to claim that it was merely "pre-production promotional photos" and nobody was to worry about the quality of the new ammunition.
One of my very least favorite examples was the guy who posted pictures of his box of Freedom Munitions 9mm ammo where one of the 50 rounds was in fact a 115gr plated slug stuffed in to a piece of .380 Auto brass. That's a true story and please don't attempt to replicate it unless you are filming an episode of "Jackass."
If I were vindictive, I might have kept a log of every minor/major Freedom Munitions failure I've seen ot heard reported. Yep, the "was great for me!" tales out number the failures, but I can say personally that my rate of success in 30 years at the bench is -far- beyond Freedom's, and of that I'm certain.
It's my position that shooters and gun lovers deserve better than this product.
Folks on the Facebook page let 'em have it, they were quick to claim that it was merely "pre-production promotional photos" and nobody was to worry about the quality of the new ammunition.
One of my very least favorite examples was the guy who posted pictures of his box of Freedom Munitions 9mm ammo where one of the 50 rounds was in fact a 115gr plated slug stuffed in to a piece of .380 Auto brass. That's a true story and please don't attempt to replicate it unless you are filming an episode of "Jackass."
If I were vindictive, I might have kept a log of every minor/major Freedom Munitions failure I've seen ot heard reported. Yep, the "was great for me!" tales out number the failures, but I can say personally that my rate of success in 30 years at the bench is -far- beyond Freedom's, and of that I'm certain.
It's my position that shooters and gun lovers deserve better than this product.
Thanks Sevens, for the detailed report...I got this stuff essentially for free(actually about $.03 per round) and have shot about 1100 rounds w/o any issues..BUT, bowing to your experience, I'll look elsewhere for low $ range ammo..Winchester and Federal 9mm stuff is about $8 for 50 at WallyWorld right now..hard to beat..plus quicker and no big $ shipping.
As for the .380 with a 115gr 'bullet' in it..Just for giggles, I put a .380 into a Ruger LC9S..and shot it..it 'worked'...probably a bad idea tho, eh?
As for the .380 with a 115gr 'bullet' in it..Just for giggles, I put a .380 into a Ruger LC9S..and shot it..it 'worked'...probably a bad idea tho, eh?
My experience with Freedom Munitions and Xtreme has been nothing less than positive. I don't reload for 9mm and have shot a ton of their new and reman ammo. While it's rather anemic, it's fine for target shooting and I could count the number of duds on one hand.
Same with Xtreme. I've bought a lot of bullets in 45acp, .38, .44. All seem to be in spec.
All that being said, I haven't purchased anything from them within the last 24 months as I'm very well stocked.
Same with Xtreme. I've bought a lot of bullets in 45acp, .38, .44. All seem to be in spec.
All that being said, I haven't purchased anything from them within the last 24 months as I'm very well stocked.
Gotta admit(hang head in shame)..got 100 rounds of 'unknown' ammo at latest gun show..in plastic bags and had more FTE than I have total in my G42 since getting it(probably 1500 rounds, maybe 2-3 before)..
Get a Kinetic Bullet Puller. Save the powder and use it on your lawn as fertilizer.
Many long moons ago, before I knew better, I did buy a bag or two of unknown-maker reloads at gunshows.
Once I did learn better, the only reloads I'll buy today is the Black Hills reman.
Once-fired brass, and I've never noticed any difference in quality or down-range performance between their reman & their regular stuff.
Total confidence in their products.
Denis
Once I did learn better, the only reloads I'll buy today is the Black Hills reman.
Once-fired brass, and I've never noticed any difference in quality or down-range performance between their reman & their regular stuff.
Total confidence in their products.
Denis