Rem. 700 or Win. 70?
- Thread starter Ed Dixon
- Start date
Take a good, hard look at the two brands side-by-side. Does the Winchester seem better made, probably of better steel? Does the M700 bolt handle maybe even (as is sometimes the case) show reddish/purple tones in the bluing? What is the quality of the wood? Look at the iron sights, if present. See a quality difference?
Don't you value the Mauser M98 -type controlled-round extraction of current M70's? We agitated for years to get Winchester to bring back that feature, and now too many of today's rifle buyers don't even seem to know about it. Also, the Remington's bolt handle is simply brazed on and can (theoretically) come off.
Overall, I'd sure take the M70, in the Featherweight Classic. I especially respect this choice in .270, but it's also good in .30/06.
If one wants a heavier .30/06 (or just prefers the styling/handling, then the standard M70 beckons, and (I believe) now comes in a 24-inch bbl. length, which many prefer for the .30/06. Particularly when used with the relatively new high velocity loads, this rifle in .30/06 is right on the heels of many .300 Magnums, but can use normal /06 fodder for 90% of realistic hunting needs.
Apart from being the best compromise for a wide range of North American hunting, the .30/06 is very common, so ammo can be found more easily than for some other worthy calibers, e.g., .280 Remington. The /06 also performs more efficiently than small-bore Magnums in most cases, and barrel life is longer. Recoil is less likely to pound your shoulder or loosen your retinas. (Two famous gun writers have actually HAD retinal separations, so I now think about this.)
As for Ginger or Mary Ann, I'd take either Veronica or Marguerite on "The Lost World" over either!
Lone Star
Don't you value the Mauser M98 -type controlled-round extraction of current M70's? We agitated for years to get Winchester to bring back that feature, and now too many of today's rifle buyers don't even seem to know about it. Also, the Remington's bolt handle is simply brazed on and can (theoretically) come off.
Overall, I'd sure take the M70, in the Featherweight Classic. I especially respect this choice in .270, but it's also good in .30/06.
If one wants a heavier .30/06 (or just prefers the styling/handling, then the standard M70 beckons, and (I believe) now comes in a 24-inch bbl. length, which many prefer for the .30/06. Particularly when used with the relatively new high velocity loads, this rifle in .30/06 is right on the heels of many .300 Magnums, but can use normal /06 fodder for 90% of realistic hunting needs.
Apart from being the best compromise for a wide range of North American hunting, the .30/06 is very common, so ammo can be found more easily than for some other worthy calibers, e.g., .280 Remington. The /06 also performs more efficiently than small-bore Magnums in most cases, and barrel life is longer. Recoil is less likely to pound your shoulder or loosen your retinas. (Two famous gun writers have actually HAD retinal separations, so I now think about this.)
As for Ginger or Mary Ann, I'd take either Veronica or Marguerite on "The Lost World" over either!
Lone Star
BusGunner007
New member
This was my original agony when choosing my first 'real' rifle.
I WASTED TWO YEARS TIME TRYING TO WEIGH IT OUT.
The long story short:
I went into a BIG 5 Sporting Goods store one day and saw a Remington 700 BDL in 7mm Rem.Mag. on the wall and bought it.
It is to this day my favorite rifle.
Yes, it's a 'push-feed Remington with a brazed on handle in a synthetic stock and a small-bore magnum'...SO WHAT?!
It's accurate; doesn't kick much harder (actually, I like it better than a .30-06); doesn't jam; takes one round at a time easily; the Police and Military use the same action; etc.
I really pissed off all the guys who told me to "get a Winchester Model 70 in .30-06".
My original choice was going to be a Savage 'Tactical' in .308 with a Weaver scope/rings/base setup like I saw in a Guns&Weapons for Law Enforcement article.
I should've just gotten THAT one and started shooting!
But, NO! I had to garner the wisdom of all the experts!
NONE of the EXPERTS would encourage me to go get the Savage and start shooting. ALL of the EXPERTS wanted me to get THEIR choice...it was the only one, you know?
To answer your original question, though?
I'd take a Remington 700 BDL in .300 Win.Mag. for only ONE rifle.
Probably the Police version, or the Sendero.
Bottom Line:
Don't wait 2 years! Get what YOU want and START SHOOTING!
Good Luck!
I WASTED TWO YEARS TIME TRYING TO WEIGH IT OUT.
The long story short:
I went into a BIG 5 Sporting Goods store one day and saw a Remington 700 BDL in 7mm Rem.Mag. on the wall and bought it.
It is to this day my favorite rifle.
Yes, it's a 'push-feed Remington with a brazed on handle in a synthetic stock and a small-bore magnum'...SO WHAT?!
It's accurate; doesn't kick much harder (actually, I like it better than a .30-06); doesn't jam; takes one round at a time easily; the Police and Military use the same action; etc.
I really pissed off all the guys who told me to "get a Winchester Model 70 in .30-06".
My original choice was going to be a Savage 'Tactical' in .308 with a Weaver scope/rings/base setup like I saw in a Guns&Weapons for Law Enforcement article.
I should've just gotten THAT one and started shooting!
But, NO! I had to garner the wisdom of all the experts!
NONE of the EXPERTS would encourage me to go get the Savage and start shooting. ALL of the EXPERTS wanted me to get THEIR choice...it was the only one, you know?
To answer your original question, though?
I'd take a Remington 700 BDL in .300 Win.Mag. for only ONE rifle.
Probably the Police version, or the Sendero.
Bottom Line:
Don't wait 2 years! Get what YOU want and START SHOOTING!
Good Luck!
DAVID NANCARROW
New member
I'd have to go with a Remington 700 in either 308 or 30-06. Push feed vs controlled round feed has become a non issue for me. I can invert the rifle and it feeds correctly, so I suppose if I were ever standing on my head, I could still shoot and load
The Remington made sense to me for several reasons. The action is simple-don't care about brazed on bolt handles, and you can't really tell anyway. The trigger isn't as simple as an M70, but it works very well and is highly tunable as well as durable, the receiver is easy to bed, although one of the MacMillan or H&S precision stocks makes it a no-brainer. Parts and accessories are available just about everywhere, and every one I have owned has shot well for me without having to fool with it much or at all.
Lots of theoretical nonsense concerning the various designs, but if it doesn't work better for you, why buy it?
I would also consider a Savage-I like the bolt position relative to the trigger, but never cared for their stocks or triggers which are replacable. Lots of people do not like the locking collar, but how easy can you make it to dial in the headspace?
The Remington made sense to me for several reasons. The action is simple-don't care about brazed on bolt handles, and you can't really tell anyway. The trigger isn't as simple as an M70, but it works very well and is highly tunable as well as durable, the receiver is easy to bed, although one of the MacMillan or H&S precision stocks makes it a no-brainer. Parts and accessories are available just about everywhere, and every one I have owned has shot well for me without having to fool with it much or at all.
Lots of theoretical nonsense concerning the various designs, but if it doesn't work better for you, why buy it?
I would also consider a Savage-I like the bolt position relative to the trigger, but never cared for their stocks or triggers which are replacable. Lots of people do not like the locking collar, but how easy can you make it to dial in the headspace?
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
First in importance is the fit and feel for you as an individual. Nobody can help you determine that, other than maybe explain some of the more significant factors.
After that, it's aesthetics. Your own Mark I eyeball is the only judge, there. If you have the interest, you can refinish any wood stock as you see fit...
For all practical purposes, particularly hunting, there are almost no "bad" bolt action rifles.
For a handloader in the "Lower 48", I advocate the old '06. Otherwise, a .308 will do fine--but you gotta recognize the range limits as compared to a 30 maggie and suchlike. Lotsa cheap ammo to use while becoming super-good at shooting.
I guess that's about the gist of it...
, Art
After that, it's aesthetics. Your own Mark I eyeball is the only judge, there. If you have the interest, you can refinish any wood stock as you see fit...
For all practical purposes, particularly hunting, there are almost no "bad" bolt action rifles.
For a handloader in the "Lower 48", I advocate the old '06. Otherwise, a .308 will do fine--but you gotta recognize the range limits as compared to a 30 maggie and suchlike. Lotsa cheap ammo to use while becoming super-good at shooting.
I guess that's about the gist of it...
, ArtMy choices came down to options...
How many different ways can I change the original if I don't like it? With the 700, a bazillion times over. With the Winnie, just over a million.
I'll take the 700's all day, every day. I have two one in .270 ADL one in .308 PSS. I would seriously consider the 30-06 if I was only going to have ONE bolt rifle.
Just my opinion.
Next.........
Ed
How many different ways can I change the original if I don't like it? With the 700, a bazillion times over. With the Winnie, just over a million.
I'll take the 700's all day, every day. I have two one in .270 ADL one in .308 PSS. I would seriously consider the 30-06 if I was only going to have ONE bolt rifle.
Just my opinion.
Next.........
Ed
I would get a Winchester model 70 in .308. The 308 is an outstanding round, extremely accurate and plentiful. I guess you wouldn't be doing yourslef any disservice by getting it in 30-06, but .308 is my personal preference. Only a few types of the current Model 70's come in .308, so you'll have to look and see which they are.
The model 70 has a better feel to the action than the remington. I have a Winchester and I love it. I want to buy another just to have two especially since it now has the Mauser '98/Pre-64 Win extractor again. Man, it is a fine rifle.
The model 70 has a better feel to the action than the remington. I have a Winchester and I love it. I want to buy another just to have two especially since it now has the Mauser '98/Pre-64 Win extractor again. Man, it is a fine rifle.
Hi Ed
They`re both decent rifles.But I`d pick a Remington 700.
The reason? Hmmm...look at this:
''The pre-64 M70 action can be considered very safe,but I feel that it could easily have been made safer.In discussions with several arms experts and shooters abiut this action,several of them said that,in case of a cartridge failure when the head of the cartridge cracks or splits,they would rather have been firing some other rifle when this happened than the M70.''
''In one case reported to me by a gunsmith whose statement I
cannot question,a shooter firing an M70 experienced a severe
case-head rupture,probably through an overload or plugged bore.
Most of the escaping gases were directed into the left locking lug
raceway,and in such volume and force that the bolt-sleeve lock
was blown out as the gases rushed past the bolt sleeve.
The shooter was injured by the powder gases,but luckily the
flying bolt-sleeve lock missed him.
This one instance,at least,is enough to convince me that the M70
action would be safer if the bolt sleeve were flanged,and if there
were a vent hole in the left side of the receiver''
Both quotes from BOLT ACTION RIFLES by Frank de Haas.
I`m not knocking the Winchester here,but I believe in Murphy`s Law.
My ''do-it all'' caliber would be .308 or 30-06(worldwide available ammo)
Good shooting
They`re both decent rifles.But I`d pick a Remington 700.
The reason? Hmmm...look at this:
''The pre-64 M70 action can be considered very safe,but I feel that it could easily have been made safer.In discussions with several arms experts and shooters abiut this action,several of them said that,in case of a cartridge failure when the head of the cartridge cracks or splits,they would rather have been firing some other rifle when this happened than the M70.''
''In one case reported to me by a gunsmith whose statement I
cannot question,a shooter firing an M70 experienced a severe
case-head rupture,probably through an overload or plugged bore.
Most of the escaping gases were directed into the left locking lug
raceway,and in such volume and force that the bolt-sleeve lock
was blown out as the gases rushed past the bolt sleeve.
The shooter was injured by the powder gases,but luckily the
flying bolt-sleeve lock missed him.
This one instance,at least,is enough to convince me that the M70
action would be safer if the bolt sleeve were flanged,and if there
were a vent hole in the left side of the receiver''
Both quotes from BOLT ACTION RIFLES by Frank de Haas.
I`m not knocking the Winchester here,but I believe in Murphy`s Law.
My ''do-it all'' caliber would be .308 or 30-06(worldwide available ammo)
Good shooting
We've Rems in several calibers (the 7s & 700s) & a few 70s in 2X calibers. I like all of them.
I do prefere the Rems, & most likely due to having started off with them so long ago - they safety placement, etc. is "more natural" mainly & the factory triggers on the Rems are easier to adjust ... personal pref.
I'm lucky though. Seems almost any rifle or shotgun pretty much shoulders & points naturally regards my body. Fit would be my main criteria.
Even my 18" short-barreled .308 M7 with decent handloads (these are NOT screaming by any means) still kills elk all day long at reasonable ranges. A .308 in a 24" or so bbl should be plenty for anything the lower 48 has to offer assuming you do your part.
The '06 will give a bit extra with a tad heavier bullets, with some extra weight.
All told, right now, my fave rifle is that shorty M7 .308. Self-adjusted factory trigger is most certainly good enough, velocity/punch = plenty good enough for elk to 250-300 yards. It's a quick-pointer, lightweight to haul around the mountains. You do lose velocity & trajectory with that 18" bbl & I still can't shoot it as accurately as a full-weight rifle - a bit light.
I'd use something else for plains game & much longer shots - probablly the 70 in .270, or .30-06, or even .243, but the latter's pretty light for an "all-'round" cartridge.
All told? I'd have to say 700 ADL (you can tweak 'em to beat the band, if need be, for pretty darned cheap) in .30-06
I do prefere the Rems, & most likely due to having started off with them so long ago - they safety placement, etc. is "more natural" mainly & the factory triggers on the Rems are easier to adjust ... personal pref.
I'm lucky though. Seems almost any rifle or shotgun pretty much shoulders & points naturally regards my body. Fit would be my main criteria.
Even my 18" short-barreled .308 M7 with decent handloads (these are NOT screaming by any means) still kills elk all day long at reasonable ranges. A .308 in a 24" or so bbl should be plenty for anything the lower 48 has to offer assuming you do your part.
The '06 will give a bit extra with a tad heavier bullets, with some extra weight.
All told, right now, my fave rifle is that shorty M7 .308. Self-adjusted factory trigger is most certainly good enough, velocity/punch = plenty good enough for elk to 250-300 yards. It's a quick-pointer, lightweight to haul around the mountains. You do lose velocity & trajectory with that 18" bbl & I still can't shoot it as accurately as a full-weight rifle - a bit light.
I'd use something else for plains game & much longer shots - probablly the 70 in .270, or .30-06, or even .243, but the latter's pretty light for an "all-'round" cartridge.
All told? I'd have to say 700 ADL (you can tweak 'em to beat the band, if need be, for pretty darned cheap) in .30-06