Reloading .38 spcl. with wrinkles?

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bobthewelder

New member
I have reloaded thousands of .45 acp rounds and never have I seen this. I set the dies up as usual, checked and double checked for OAL, but when I got to seat and crimp I get hesitation in the first part of the die, but sporadically. But, when I do feel the hesitation, the case comes out wrinked on the sides of the case? I reset, tried again, same thing. Do I need to trim my ./38 brass like rifle brass to eliminate this, or what is going on? I cleaned the dies, lube the cases, same thing. Please help me resolve this expensive practice so I can chalk it up to lessons learned.
 
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Tom2

New member
Hmm. .38 brass does not usually stretch alot like resized .357 mag cases can do. Have you tried setting the case mouth expander for a little more diameter to the case mouths for seating the bullets? Are the cases over max OAL or something? Are the bullets close to .357 diameter? Maybe you got a defective set of dies, unless they have worked OK with other components. Nothing inherintly difficult about loading .38's so something is wrong there.
 
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bobthewelder

New member
They are second hand Lee 357/.38 spcl. dies. Never had a problem with Lee dies. I will try to expand the mouths more, but in all honesty, the bulets fall into the cases nicely with the setting I am using. I will try and report back. I sure am wating time and primers right now, both of which are expensive.
 
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Nnobby45

New member
Only wrinkle cause I know of is not enough belling of the case mouth. Not enough flare will, most assuredly cause "wrinkling".

As for dies that try to crimp the bullet while it's still being seated, I can't say that doesn't contribute to the problem. Those dies saved time on a single stage press, but, IMO, there's no reason for them on a progressive press with an extra station for a seperate crimp die.:cool:

In any event, put some more flare on the dang thing and be done with it.;)

And NO. Your cases don't need to be trimmed. If the cases are mixed range brass, then make sure your flare is enough for the shortest, and that will give you slightly more than you need for the longer ones.

If you adjusted your case mouth expander while using a longer case, then that could account for why some of the shorter ones are being crushed. Also, going from a flat based bullet from a bevel base will also require some adjustment.
 
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snuffy

New member
More info needed. What brand brass? What type/brand bullet? What gun? What load? Are you seating AND crimping in one operation? What type of loader?

When you go to do a welding job, you have to know what material, electrode, welder settings, position of the workpiece. We need to know everything about what you're doing as well!

Another thing, why do you say you're wasting primers? If the brass is ruined, just decap those primers slowly with the sizer die, then reuse them in fresh brass.
 
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kraigwy

New member
Often resizing dies are smaller in diameter then the bullet + case walls. They do need to be that way for smooth clylender/chambering.

If you ever used the 38s in a auto like the Smith Modle 52 Target WC gun you would really notice this.

Its not really a problem (I'm assuming you are talking about the wrinkles cause by the buller and or seating). Except for looks.

There is a simple fix. RESIZE YOUR ROUNDS AGAIN AFTER SEATING AND CRIMPING.

You can always use your sizing die again or what I found was using the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die. This die, besides crimping the bullet, has a carbide ring at the bottom of the die, that re-sizes the case after crimping, (while you pull the round out of the die).

Yes the 38 dosnt stretch that much, but to get a constant crimp, the brass has to be the same lenght. Also the seating die has to be kept clean to keep the bullet seating constant.

CONSISTANTCY IS ACCURACY.

Also the sizing of the case makes for smother loading into the cylender or chamber (in autos).

I recommend one take a look at the lee carbide factory crimping die. I use on in all of my straight walled pistol cases.
 
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bobthewelder

New member
I am using mixed range brass. I use a Pacific/Hornaday really old single stage press. The bullets are cast 158 gr. RN. from Sutter's Choice (MFG.). Universal Powder 4.1 gr. Winchester primers. I shoot it from a Model 36 S&W 1 7/8" barrel. Lee dies, seating and crimping same die. I pulled it apart and cleaned it well. I will get a factory crimp die, I have one for my M1 and it works great. No one locally carries Lee dies, it will have to wait for the weekend.

Thanks guys!
 
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wpcexpert

New member
I had several wrinkles before I figured out I had the crimp set low.

+1 for the crimping portion of the die. I don't even use crimp anymore for my .38s. Just enough to press the bell back down.
 
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jamaica

New member
Two things may wrinkle the brass. Overcrimping, and maybe not enough bell. Here are some ideas on another page: crimping.html

One thing to keep in mind is that on revolver ammo the dies are usually sent with a roll crimp. You need a crimp ring or cannelure to crimp into.
It is a bit different than the taper crimp on the 45 ACP.

If your bullet does not have that, you can only crimp enough to bring the bell in against the bullet. Any more will likely wrinkle the brass.

In any case if your brass was sized properly there will be a slight bulge at the seating depth of the bullet. This is because the bullet expands the brass as it is being seated. This is what holds the bullet snugly in the brass. The crimp is just a little more insurance that the bullet won't move due to recoil. If this smalll bulge is what you are seeing it is no problem. If you have other bulges and the bullet seems loose, you may need to work on adjusting the crimp.
 
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bobthewelder

New member
another thing, likely doesn't matter but this recipes COL puts the bullets crimp groove above the neck by a bit. I will also try this with 158 gr. Speer Gold dots.
 
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