Reloading .357 rifle ammo
- Thread starter ibfestus
- Start date
We have reasonable, tangible proof that the CCI-400 small rifle primer and the CCI-550 small pistol magnum primer are the SAME primer in two different packages. I use the CCI-400 in all my .357 Mag loads using slow burning powders.
Many don't seem to realize...
It isn't the caliber or the firearm that demands the "magnum" primer... it's the load and more to the point, it is the powder.
Many don't seem to realize...
It isn't the caliber or the firearm that demands the "magnum" primer... it's the load and more to the point, it is the powder.
tomingreeneco
New member
H110 should be used with a mag primer. I have a lever gun in .357 at it shoots well with IMR 4227 powder and 158gr JHP. I have several .357 pistols so I do not make up different loads just for the rifle. (Do not need any mix up's).
Any slower burning handgun powder should shot well in the rifle, do not use the faster powders for the rifle as you will not get good velocity from them.
Any slower burning handgun powder should shot well in the rifle, do not use the faster powders for the rifle as you will not get good velocity from them.
I'll pile on as I am loading the same for a lever right now.
I'm loading Berry 158s. I pulled a bullet on a cracked case and got to fussing. At the roll crimp mark the diameter is .3515. The bullet is .3605, providing a bullet deformation crimp of .0090. I have often read about the "just right crimp".
Anyone want to opine if that is "just right" for a lever gun?
For pigs I would go right to H110, near top of the book with an XTP 158s. I have an old book that would say you still have room at 16.7 but I'll just go 16. It is what I plan to load when I finish the plated with Unique. I might load a few 16.5s and crono them. We'll see. The pig will not be able to tell the difference. I doubt your Ruger will notice either.
And plus 1 vote for just use Mag primers.
I'm loading Berry 158s. I pulled a bullet on a cracked case and got to fussing. At the roll crimp mark the diameter is .3515. The bullet is .3605, providing a bullet deformation crimp of .0090. I have often read about the "just right crimp".
Anyone want to opine if that is "just right" for a lever gun?
For pigs I would go right to H110, near top of the book with an XTP 158s. I have an old book that would say you still have room at 16.7 but I'll just go 16. It is what I plan to load when I finish the plated with Unique. I might load a few 16.5s and crono them. We'll see. The pig will not be able to tell the difference. I doubt your Ruger will notice either.
And plus 1 vote for just use Mag primers.
Sevens,
With Unique, where would you place pop-gun loads at? Top end with plated?
Berry says they can go to 1200 fps and nothing I'm loading is within 200 fps of that by book. Will a rifle add 200 fps?
The lack of plated data gives me fits.
6.0 Unique 158 lead, 1034 fps top end
7.7 Unique 158 XTP, 1040 fps top end
I picked 7.2 out of the air. I'll know more Friday if I get out to crono them.
With Unique, where would you place pop-gun loads at? Top end with plated?
Berry says they can go to 1200 fps and nothing I'm loading is within 200 fps of that by book. Will a rifle add 200 fps?
The lack of plated data gives me fits.
6.0 Unique 158 lead, 1034 fps top end
7.7 Unique 158 XTP, 1040 fps top end
I picked 7.2 out of the air. I'll know more Friday if I get out to crono them.
I can't help with estimating velocities as I don't use Unique and I don't have a .357 rifle. I certainly don't think it is a bad idea or unsafe to try and see what you see.
I think you are very unlikely to ever find much published data for plated bullets, for two reasons. Number 1 is that the different plated slugs from different makers vary widely in their construction and published data covering a "generic" plated bullet would be next to useless but more because of #2: the real published load data is crafted by a true ballistics testing lab, at great expense. The bullet and powder makers have the bankroll for doing exactly that.
Berry's, Xtreme, Ranier? They don't.
I think you are very unlikely to ever find much published data for plated bullets, for two reasons. Number 1 is that the different plated slugs from different makers vary widely in their construction and published data covering a "generic" plated bullet would be next to useless but more because of #2: the real published load data is crafted by a true ballistics testing lab, at great expense. The bullet and powder makers have the bankroll for doing exactly that.
Berry's, Xtreme, Ranier? They don't.
the .357 is really just too small to be a great rifle load. You can't pack enough slow burning powder into it to bring it to full potential. With every fraction of an inch the casing is expanded, you can then use slower burning rifle grade powders, and in so doing, create faster loads.
Going up to .357 maximum would be a huge leap, and every step farther up the capacity you would go, the more improvement you would find.
The same can be said for the .38. You can't even safely shoot some of the powders meant for the .357 in that small case, the pressures needed to burn some of them are unacceptable.
Going up to .357 maximum would be a huge leap, and every step farther up the capacity you would go, the more improvement you would find.
The same can be said for the .38. You can't even safely shoot some of the powders meant for the .357 in that small case, the pressures needed to burn some of them are unacceptable.
tomingreeneco
New member
I would not use a plated bullet for hog hunting. Go with something like Hornady XTP 158gr. I also would NOT use a rifle powder, too big a chance that it may get used in a revolver. A slower burning pistol powder at max load will give you higher velocities then the same load in a pistol. It is hard to find data on velocities with pistol calibers shot from a rifle. The Buffalo Bore web site might give you some idea of the difference, they used to have data on both for the ones they sell.
tomingreeneco
New member
Just found this from another forum. Maybe it will help.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html
Reloader270
New member
I use Federal 205 SR primers in my Marlin .357Magnum Rifle (1894) with equivalent powder as IMR4227. They work excellent. Velocity is 1650fps on a 158gr JSP bullet. Never had any misfire. When I had done the initial testing, some CCI SR primers were too hard to make them go of in this rifle. It might be different with other brand of rifles. You can never go wrong with Federal Primers.
buck460XVR
New member
I disagree. While it might not be great for you it may very well be perfect for someone else. The .357 mag with appropriate bullets and powder charge can make for an exceptional rifle load. Maybe not for Elephants or Cape Buffalo, but certainly for deer at reasonable ranges and varmints. It's also makes for a great range rifle.......inexpensive to shoot, very little recoil and great accuracy. Every firearm has it's strengths and limitations. The .357 in a rifle/carbine is no exception.
Yes, that is right, it has its uses and limitations. I don't consider it to be an appropriate round for deer at anything but shorter ranges, with proper loads. For decades here the 30 carbine was allowed. For deer, and you couldn't pistol hunt with anything lighter than a 357/158.
My point was that if you have to crush a load to reach velocities needed, it may lead to an improved version. .357 max was a great idea, as was the .444marlin. Took good rounds to the next. Level.
My point was that if you have to crush a load to reach velocities needed, it may lead to an improved version. .357 max was a great idea, as was the .444marlin. Took good rounds to the next. Level.
stubbicatt
New member
If it helps OP at all, I load 13.3 grains of 2400 behind a 160 grain cast bullet and get very good accuracy in my Uberti 1873 replica.
Speaking from ignorance only, and from anecdotal information I read hereabouts, I would be more inclined to choose a "solid" bullet for hogs, as I have read that they have some pretty tough gristle pads that your bullet may need to penetrate in order to hit the vitals. I think I would also be inclined to go with a 180 grain bullet, assuming your rifle will shoot the heavier bullet well. Seems to me a little more momentum might help.
FWIW, in the old black powder era, where the propellant limited velocities to generally the sub 1600 fps range, heavier bullets were preferred for hunting applications due to the additional momentum they carried. The same principles might apply here where we are "velocity challenged."
Speaking from ignorance only, and from anecdotal information I read hereabouts, I would be more inclined to choose a "solid" bullet for hogs, as I have read that they have some pretty tough gristle pads that your bullet may need to penetrate in order to hit the vitals. I think I would also be inclined to go with a 180 grain bullet, assuming your rifle will shoot the heavier bullet well. Seems to me a little more momentum might help.
FWIW, in the old black powder era, where the propellant limited velocities to generally the sub 1600 fps range, heavier bullets were preferred for hunting applications due to the additional momentum they carried. The same principles might apply here where we are "velocity challenged."
In a 38 special work up to 357 magnum double loads with 158 gr and Bullseye, the small pistol primer pieced at what Quickload thinks is 140,000 psi.
So I switched to a magnum small rifle primer [CCI450 the tougher primer I know] and it went to QL 220,000 psi before that primer pierced.
The point of piercing is a function of pressure, firing pin shape, and firing pin fit.
Thanks, guys!
My hunting is almost always 70 yards or less. I just turned 71 and can no longer pull a bow and crossbows are too heavy. This little rifle is amazing. Topped by a Leupold 1.5X ultralight scope and a loaded mag, it still tops the scales at 7 lbs or a tad less. A .38 Spcl factory LSWC is not much louder than a .22 LR with zero recoil. I can use heavy .357 loads because I don't own a .357 handgun.
I killed a whitetail doe at 40 yards using a .357, factory, Buffalo Bore 158 gr. My Bro in Law is promising me a pig hunt in GA in 2016.
My hunting is almost always 70 yards or less. I just turned 71 and can no longer pull a bow and crossbows are too heavy. This little rifle is amazing. Topped by a Leupold 1.5X ultralight scope and a loaded mag, it still tops the scales at 7 lbs or a tad less. A .38 Spcl factory LSWC is not much louder than a .22 LR with zero recoil. I can use heavy .357 loads because I don't own a .357 handgun.
I killed a whitetail doe at 40 yards using a .357, factory, Buffalo Bore 158 gr. My Bro in Law is promising me a pig hunt in GA in 2016.
I take exception to almost everything above, but most especially the comment about "rifle powder"So you can't use IMR OR H-4227, both started out as rifle powders? Then you go on to say "pistol powders" Semi auto pistols, single shot pistols? Most of the powders we now use in handgun loading started their life as shotgun propellant.
You can most CERTAINLY make a round that will work great in both a revolver AND a rifle. I did precisely that in my partner set-up, my Ruger GP-100 and my Rossi M92-.357 both . Using my home cast Lyman 168 SWC mold, (that actually cast out at 173 grains), I loaded them with AA#9, top loads, you look up how much. I won't, in most cases, give actual grain weights over the I-net. It worked great, got a nice 4" group @ 25 yds from the GP-100, and 2.5" from the Rossi. Chronograph said I gained 165 fps from the extra barrel length of the rifle.
The old west gunners almost always had the same ammo for their partner guns of a six shooter and a levergun. That way they didn't have to keep two different calibers in their saddle bags. That's what I wanted to do with my first Rossi, a 45 colt. THEN I saw what I'd have to spend for a 45 colt revolver!!
The much cheaper was to partner my GP-100, (that I already owned), with another Rossi M-92. I may someday get a Ruger vaquero, in 45 colt. THEN the only problem would be choosing which one to take out for a range session! A great problem to have, I know. The solution would most likely be to take both combo's fun FUN FUN