Reliability

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LBC

New member
Relaibility

I've got to say, after visiting GlockTalk and HKPro in the past few days, I am stunned by the number or reliability issues discussed on those boards.

I always believed Glock and HK were pretty reliable semiautos. Now I'm beginning to wonder if any semiauto is worth carrying -- and I've got two, full-sized and a mid-sized 1911 platforms.

I'm not trying to start another revolvers vs. semiauto thread. I know revolvers can break down. But in six years I have NEVER had a stoppage while shooting a revolver at the range.

So, if having a CCW on you is first and foremost, and reliability comes second, why don't we all carry j-frames or k-frames? I know I'm asking the right group of folks...:)
 
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Col. Mustard

New member
Reliability is not strictly a mechanical idea

The mechanical reliability factor of most modern guns is pretty high, but overall "reliability" can also be affected by, for example, the gun's concealability and ammunition on board. A gun you can carry and conceal comfortably is more likely to be your constant companion, while a gun that runs out of ammo might well go "click" reliably; when you'd prefer it goes "bang."
 
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Hkmp5sd

New member
Because autoloaders are reliable and offer a better weight/dimension/caliber/capacity selection that revolvers. Over the years I've carried an assortment of both, including Ruger GP-100, SP-101, S&W 19, S&W 649, S&W 59, Colt 1911, Glock 17, S&W 5906, Glock 27 and a few dozen more. Every gun has it's pro's and con's. I just like semiautomatic handguns for concealed carry over revolvers.

Semiautomatic handguns are narrower, on average hold more rounds, are quicker to reload and easier to carry extra ammo for. If you can take an autoloader and shoot a few thousand rounds through it without malfunction, it's reliable enough to protect your life.
 
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J Miller

New member
LBC,

I can speek for myself and my 1911 variants only.

I used to cary 1911's without any reservation at all.
Mine were reliable. I made sure of that before I trusted them. The first one, a modestly modified 1930's vintage Colt, was also my IPSC gun, (before they went race gun mad). It would chamber empty cases from the magazine all day long.

The second a mid 90's Springfield 1911 MilSpec. This gun was just about perfect right out of the box. The only modifications done were cosmetic. Never gave me any trouble.

I believe that most troubles with autos is caused by incorect ammo.
Second by improper handeling by the owner.
Third by mechanical failure.
Fourth by design flaws.

Because of financial problems I had to sell all my nicer guns, (they bring the most money). So all I have to cary now is my two old S&W's. But I don't have a problem with a good quality auto. I am considering buying either another Springfield 1911 MilSpec, or a Ruger P90.

Yes I AM a big bore fan.
 
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BrokenArrow

New member
YMMV

I saw plenty of weapons related malfunctions w military revolvers. Mostly the M15 (S&W Model 15 Combat Masterpiece) and the snubby 38s issued to pilots and aircrews.

The military .38s were better than the M1911A1s I was issued, but the M9/M11 were better than both. They weren't 20-40 years old either... ;)

Have a friend who does a lot of the training/Q fire for local guard companies, and wheelguns do jam. See em do it at the local action matches too.

Still, Old Reliable for me is a stainless Ruger GP100, 3 inch, fixed sight. When I am not gambling the Hrvatski Samokres will be good enough for extreme duty that is... ;)
 
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Nick96

New member
For me, it boils down to intended use. If circumstances are such that you NEED higher ammo capacity, somewhat faster follow up shots and faster reload - then the auto may be the best choice. Autos strike me as being more "labor intensive". They have to be clean and well lubed. Magazines have to be clean and in good condition. The right ammo has to be selected after several hundred rounds of malfunction free operation. You really need to practice jam clearing drills to quickly get problems fixed in high stress situations.

Personally, I've never had any auto in my hands that didn't jam at one time or another. Like wise, I've never had a revolver fail to operate correctly. Occasionally hit a bad primer, yes. But the revolver was still functional by simply pulling the trigger again.

If you are really "into" guns and are willing to spend the time and money to be completely comfortable with a given auto - or really NEED the advantages afforded by the auto - then go for it. For more casual use, greater tollerance for neglect, reliability with most whatever round will fit in the chamber and simplicity of operation - a revolver is a better choice.

There have been numerous threads on the subject of what's best for "average citizen" personal protection. And the nod tends to go to the revolver.
 
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Dfariswheel

New member
I see a lot of discusion on the various gun boards about jammers.
If you read between the lines, you get the indication that many of these are directly related to poor ammo, improper maintenance, and unrealistic expections.

Many of the complainers are using the cheapest off brand ammo they can find, or simply go out and buy a type of ammo and never really verify the reliability of THAT ammo in THAT gun. Some guns just don't "like" some types or brands of ammo.

Some people either under maintain or improperly maintain the gun. Some people rarely service the magazines.

A large number have bought into the "Super gun" legend.
"I have a (name a gun) they NEVER jam, no matter what".
People read those stories in the gun magazines about Glocks going a quarter-of a-million rounds, or the guy who put 10,000 rounds through one in a weekend without a jam or much cleaning, and they think this normal procedure.
When their gun chokes, they complain about the gun not being any good.

Due to design differences, revolvers seem to take neglect and lack of proper maintenance better than most autos.

Modern autos appear to be as reliable as the revolver.

My standard is to select a gun/ammo combination and shoot it until I'm convinced it's a reliable combo. Then give the gun proper maintenance and inspect it OFTEN. Any problems and I look for different ammo. If I can't get a combo to work, I assume a defective gun, and it goes back to the factory. If it still won't work, I will NOT trust it for defense.
 
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Preacherman

New member
One of the things that puzzles me most about guys who buy the latest handgun (usually semi-auto in this case) is the number who will casually say "Well, I want to find out how reliable this gun is, so I haven't cleaned it for the last XXX-hundred/YYY-thousand rounds... I want to see how long it will go before malfunctioning." All well and good, but THIS IS ALSO THEIR CCW CARRY PIECE!!! :eek: How on earth they would willingly trust their lives to a gun that might jam at any minute due to nothing more complicated than lack of maintenance, is utterly beyond my comprehension!

IMHO, if a pistol is cleaned and lubricated at regular intervals, and well maintained (e.g. springs replaced every so often, magazines rotated, etc.), its reliability is likely to be at least as good as a revolver's, if not better. However, if a gun is likely to be short on routine cleaning and maintenance, I think I prefer my odds with a revolver. (I know, I know - INCOMING!!! :D )
 
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Blackhawk

New member
So, if having a CCW on you is first and foremost, and reliability comes second, why don't we all carry j-frames or k-frames?
Click to expand...
Just because I like semiautos better at this phase of my life. I admire their designs and appreciate their unambiguously hollering "I'm empty" without having to count shots plus the fact that reloading is SO easy.

Carried a K frame for years, and it would most likely have done the job extremely well if ever called on, but it never rang my chimes like carrying an auto does. Sort of like driving an underpowered old sedan versus a Porsche.

It's just a matter of attitude....
 
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James K

Member In Memoriam
I agree with a lot of the above, and really become ticked at the guy who buys an expensive gun and then asks on this or another site where he can buy the absolutely cheapest ammo.

Proper functioning in an auto pistol requires that the gun, the ammo, and the magazines all be good; if there is a failure in any one of the three areas, it doesn't matter how good the other two are.

That being said, a lot of supposedly high quality auto pistols, most of them 1911 clones, seem to be poorly made. Barrel bushings should not break unless the shooter wants to nail the BG with the recoil spring plug. Slide stops should hold back the slide when the gun runs empty. Extractors should not break or have to be tuned every ten minutes. Vital parts that take stress should not be made by MIM or (in some cases) even casting.

I think some folks prefer auto pistols simply because it gives them something to complain about. Shooting a good revolver (or a good auto pistol) is boring; there is just nothing to "tell the gang on TFL about".

Jim
 
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sm

New member
I to agree with lot of the above.

Gun fit of firearm to individual; its one thing on the range to take your time, under stress is the wrong time to find the trigger reach on your firearm is incorrect.

Ammo selection, especially some of the alloy revolvers that state from the git go
what to use and what to avoid

Improper maintenance

Individual Honesty: by this I mean choosing the platform, manual of arms, caliber for you(including loads) FOR YOU not what some magazine or guru says "you gotta have". If you can't handle the recoil of .357 due to arthritis --use a .38 spl.

Before I CCW a firearm I will run a min. of 1k rounds of fmj, them a min of 750rds of carry load. I will subject it to not cleaning, rain, mud, limpwrist, upside down, weak-hand, have exposed some to heat/cold/snow/ freezing rain.

I have a maintenance schedule thereafter. I can't take for granted that in a situation It'll be sunny, dry and a pleasant 67 degrees.

Number One problem I see with revolvers -not just ladies- NELPHS. Little fuzz bunnies because no holster used. In some policies for revolvers every 6 months revo has to be checked and cleaned by a gunsmith--paperwork to substanciate.
 
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BrokenArrow

New member
Not too sure about avoiding cast parts at all costs... a good casting can be pretty damn good. I've seen Ruger autos and revolvers w cast frames last longer than some forged 1911s and S&Ws at rental ranges for example.
 
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CZ Gunner

New member
Code: 
I agree with a lot of the above, and really become ticked
 at the guy who buys an expensive gun and then asks on this or 
another site where he can buy the absolutely cheapest ammo.

A gun is only as reliable as its weakest component and only as accurate as the joker pulling the trigger.
 
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jar

New member
I guess it's good that so many people prefer semi-automatics. it's hard enough to find the good wheelguns as is.
 
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BigJake

New member
so re1973, basicly you just want a glock. as much as i like glocks, they're butt ugly, a good ol' wheelgun is just...sexy. the semi autos seem to have all bases covered like everyones said, but personaly i just like the revolver, despite its ammo capacity shortcomings, i doubt i'll ever need to have 60 rnds handy, 6 seems to do just fine, and i can always carry more if need be (and i really hope i never come across that day)
 
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LBC

New member
Just wondering when the last time was someone "broke in" their revolver with 500 rounds, then put 200 rounds of their "carry load" through it just to be sure, then started counting rounds before changing springs and buffers, used a different lube for winter and summer, worried about limp wristing, extractor tension, downloading mags, etc.

Maybe it's just a phase I'm going through...
 
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