Registration = Confiscation: Sources?

[Jeff Thomas]

Fellow TFL members,

Yesterday there was an article in the Wall Street Journal ('WSJ') that told the story of an FFL in Colorado Springs that is (1) thinking of getting out of the business due to his concern about the nature of the business, who is acquiring guns, etc., and (2) supporting (or at least becoming so)registration of firearms.

Today the WSJ published the results of an WSJ / NBC poll showing generally overwhelming support for registration and other gun control schemes of various types.

(I can enter all this stuff in here, but really don't want to take the time right now. If you really want it, post that and I'll enter the story and data.)

My son asked the same question of me the other day. I told him, IMHO, that the comparison of gun registration to auto registration is a bogus analogy. In my mind, the significant differences are the critical importance of firearms to self-defense and democracy, and the historical record of governments seizing arms.

We've all heard of Bill Bradley's and Al Gore's recent efforts. Registration is being presented as an obvious, intelligent approach to this issue.

I am aware of http://www.sksbuyback.org/ and http://www.nrawinningteam.com/ regarding recent registration = confiscation actions in CA. And, I have seen Stephen Halbrook's work on the ILA web site regarding similar Nazi actions during WWII. I'm searching for more such evidence.

If you know of anything, including citations, web sites, etc., please post it in this thread. I have heard of such actions in NY and IL. I'll spend some of tonight and tomorrow searching GOA, NRA/ILA, and JPFO.

Any additional help you can provide will be appreciated.

I know it is tough as nails to get a letter to the editor published in the WSJ, but I want to give this a shot again.

Thank you for any help you can provide.

Regards from AZ

 

[DC]

RE: Comparison with vehicle registration

This falls apart when one considers:
1) Vehicles only need to be registered when operated on public roads, not on private property
2) Anyone 18 or older can buy a vehicle, criminal record or not
3) Existing vehicles (registered or not) are not banned or confiscated unless used in a crime (impoundment)
4) Vehicle registration is primarily used to generate revenue
5) There is no mention of vehicles (ownership, operation, use) as a right in the Bill of Rights

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"

 

[Coinneach]

I haven't heard about the Colorado Springs dealer, but it's gotta be Dragon Man (Mel something). He's the only dealer I know who supports registration, and he's catching mass hell for it, as well as being chummy with the BATF.

He's also, AFAIK, the only Class III dealer in the county. But that's OK, there's another in Woodland Park (Teller County), 18 miles away.

Something else that just occurred to me: Bernstein has a big sign on the front door that says, "If you bring a loaded firearm into the store, we will assume you are a robber." Skroom. I go to the range 45 miles away, where all the old grouchy trap shooters hang out and bitch about the grubmint, and where the range owner has no problem with me carrying while I'm there.
------------------
You can't get something for nothing,
You can't have freedom for free.
--Neil Peart

[This message has been edited by Coinneach (edited July 14, 1999).]

 

[Menos]

When ever you must get permission from some authority as in the case of a license, you are dealing with a privilidge , not a Right... Rights are just that,, and require no permission from anyone !

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force, whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined." Patrick Henry

------------------
What part of "INFRINGED" don't they understand?

 

[Jeff Thomas]

You're right on the money, Coinneach - his name is Mel Bernstein, aka Dragon man. The article had an innner page headline of 'Gun Dealer Cools to the Business'. Here are some notable excerpts from the article:

'But lately, Mr. Berstein has begun to wish certain customers would shop elsewhere. They are the ones who buy weapons intending to sell them on the street or distribute them to others who can't make legal purchases because of their age or felony convictions.

Often employed by gangs and drug smugglers, such so-called 'straw buyers' have spawned calls for tighter legal restrictions and charges that the industry isn't doing enough to police itself.

Mr. Berstein has occasionally seen straw buyers distributing newly purchased guns to others in his parking lot. Meanwhile, weapons from his shop have turned up in distant criminal investigations and suspicious strangers pull up often enough that Ms. Flanell has begun locking up early when her husband is away.'

[JT note - I wonder if Mr. Bernstein prefers not to do business with 'straw buyers' because he knows full well that it is already a federal crime to knowingly sell to them?]

And this:

'Still, straw buyers and teenage killers have stirred up deep uncertainty for Mr. Berstein, who once compared the jolt of a machine gun to the joy of sex.

As it stands, firearms leave a legal paper trail only from the manufacturer to the first retail buyer, so nobody readily knows how many times they change hands after leaving a licensed retailer.

In radical opposition to his industry, Mr. Bernstein now believes that every gun should be registered every time it is bought or sold by anyone. 'That's the only way that they are ever going to be able to keep track of everything', he says. [JT note - no sh**, Sherlock. That's the big concern, isn't it?]

In the meantime, Mr. Bernstein and his wife are discussing whether to renew their federal firearms license when it expires in November. Dragon Man has stopped renting machine guns at his firing range, and he has started stashing loaded weapons for protection around his machine shop.

'You've got to think about what could happen,' he says. 'It's getting too dangerous.'"

Well Dragon Bozo, having the government keep track of everything is exactly what concerns some of us. And it also concerned the folks who founded the U.S. Rightly so, based upon the trend in human behavior we have seen in the 20th Century. Why will the 21st Century be a vast improvement?


So, I'm still left looking for more examples and citations. I appreciate DC's counterpoints re: auto registration. I'll be grateful for all help.

Thanks.


[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited July 14, 1999).]

 

[Ipecac]

It sounds to me like the ATF is leaning a bit on Quisling Bernstein, hence his embrace of gun registration.

As to more info on registration-confiscation, go to www.jpfo.org. Some of their pamphlets deal directly with this issue. In "Gun Control Kills Kids" they discuss, with footnoted attributions to sources, how the Nazis used the registration lists of the previous government to confiscate arms. The book, "Lethal Laws" by Jay Simkin, Aaron Zelman and Alan M. Rice also discusses this issue, and is available at the jpfo website.

------------------

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed -- and thus clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." -- H.L. Mencken

 

[Coinneach]

Something else to send chills up my spine: last time I was out at DM's (several months ago, teaching a newbie), the flag in his parking lot was looking pretty ragged. I mentioned to him that "maybe the revolution will happen this year and we can replace Old Glory with Gadsden." He wasn't amused.

------------------
You can't get something for nothing,
You can't have freedom for free.
--Neil Peart