"Registered" firearms.

I

imp

New member
Perhaps it's because I have lived only in "free" states in the union, I am confused when I read about "Registered" firearms. While NICS may be de facto registration, it's a pretty poor one, simply because many states don't mandate a check on private sales.

My question is, which states/districts/territories maintain a true registry of firearms and owners?
 
4

44 AMP

Staff
It depends on what you mean by a "true registry"?

Any place that requires any kind of form to be filled out, or permit to buy/possess has some kind of registry. Different places get more specific.

Several states used an FOID system (Firearm Owner Identification Document, (usually a card). This is a permit system.

Some systems only track "imp (who lives at XXX gunowner street, hometown usa) owns a gun", or "imp applied to buy a gun".

Others, (like NY) go further. They keep the data that "imp (address) owns a S&W .357 Magnum, 6" barrel, ser# N12345"

What is a "true registry" in your eyes?
 
A

Aguila Blanca

Staff
Any state that requires what is referred to as an "FOID" (Firearms Owners IDentification).

For example, New York requires owners of handguns to register them, and IF you manage to get a carry permit, any and all guns you may wish to carry MUST be listed on the back of the permit.

Then there are states like Pennsylvania and Connecticut (and probably a few others) that create a database by requiring all sales through FFLs to be reported to the State Police. (Post Sandy Hook, Connecticut changed that to include ALL transfers, even private, face-to-face -- but that was already in place for handguns.) In PA, face-to-face transfers are still legal so the data base is technically not a registry, because it is not complete. However, the State Police and many local PDs treat it as if it is a complete registry. It's common in PA for cops making a traffic stop of an armed driver to run the gun against the "registry" and confiscate it if there's no record that the person bought it -- even though it may have been purchased legally through other avenues, or possibly brought in when the owner moved to PA from a free state.
 
Last edited:
I

imp

New member
That's very interesting about PA...I will dig into that issue as well.

What I meant about a "true" registry is like NY has, where the particular firearm serial number, owner, and address are listed, and to what degree that info is available to the general public. More interested in how particular firearms are tracked, and who has access to that system.
 
bigleverman

bigleverman

New member
In PA only handguns are registered qith the state police. There is a seperate form that is sent to state police when a handgun is purchased. All long gun transactions through an FFL are subject to the state instant check only the records of the sale are not sent to state police.
 
bigleverman

bigleverman

New member
Not sure of where in PA Aguila is talking about, but Ive never heard of anyone getting their firearm confiscated during a traffic stop unless they were breaking a law. Im not disputing it but in North Central PA most all LEO I know are very pro-gun
 
L

Librarian

New member
California, a favorite bête noire but I live here, has partial registration, in the sense that it is incomplete.

CA-DOJ maintains AFS - the Automated Firearms System. Information from sales through FFLs is submitted via the DROS - Dealer's Record Of Sale - system to CA-DOJ and is added to AFS. That records owner name and address, and make/model/caliber/serial number of the purchased weapons.

New residents have been required to 'voluntarily' register guns they bring into California since January 1, 1998. The info on those forms is entered into AFS.

A few other sources feed into AFS - intrafamily transfers and inherited firearms need forms filed with the State, and guns listed on the relatively rare CCW are also added. C&R licensees must file paper on guns they acquire out of state and bring back to CA.

But: transfer through an FFL was required only in 1991, and collecting the weapon information for long guns through DROS and the forms began in 2014.

Setting aside all the legally non-conforming transfers and imports, firearms not transferred inside California since 1990, and those moved here before 1998, and long guns before 2014 all will not be registered.

Similar to what Aguila Blanca posted, anecdotes suggest some police agencies (and, apparently, many newspaper writers) believe that all guns in California are registered.

Presuming the law stays the same, I estimate that it should take about 50 years to get substantially all guns registered - 2040 or so for handguns, 2065 or so for long guns. AFS will be incomplete until something like those dates, and then we can worry about the inaccuracies ...

CA does not require re-registration on a time-schedule - once is all there is - nor when one might change residences, or get married and change names (if one were so old-fashioned as to do that).

California does not require that a gun be taken to a government agency to be inspected and verify information to register it (I believe Washington DC requires that).
 
A

Armed_Chicagoan

New member
Aguila Blanca said:
Any state that requires what is referred to as an "FOID" (Firearms Owners IDentification).

For example, New York requires owners of handguns to register them, and IF you manage to get a carry permit, any and all guns you may wish to carry MUST be listed on the back of the permit.
Click to expand...
There are no firearms listed on or tied to an Illinois FOID, nor is there a registry. And I know 2 people who have a FOID and don't own any firearms.

And while you are required to keep a record for 10 years of anyone you sell a firearm to a copy is not sent to the state.

eta: IOW the state of Illinois has no idea if I have 0, 5, 10, or 100 firearms.
 
Last edited:
O

osbornk

New member
I like the KISS program here in Virginia. When we buy a gun from a FFL, we go through the federal and state check, pay for the weapon and leave with it. That's it.

I was talking to a friend today when I was getting my car inspected and we got to talking about guns when he asked me about the spent 38 special shells in the floor. He said his cousin was stopped by a State Trooper a while back when he saw a handgun exposed in the passenger seat (he had no CCL). The trooper asked him if it was loaded and his reply was "yes, it wouldn't be any good if it wasn't". The trooper asked to see it and took it back to his cruiser. He apparently checked out the serial number and came back, gave the gun back to him and said "have a nice day". The troopers in the sticks understand.
 
T

turkeestalker

New member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but any firearm I've bought since a call to the BATF was required here in Missouri, they know about right down to my address and the serial number of the firearm. Before that call was mandated, the sheriff's department of the county you lived in had a record if it was a hand gun because you had to get a permit before hand and in order to purchase it. My guess would be that those records are kept and kept safe. Here in Missouri it has been one of those two ways for as long as I can remember. If you filled out any paperwork they know you own it, and if you've sold or traded it privately, they'll be expecting a paper trail to follow to find it should they ever wish to. We may not have to 'register' like in the communist states so to speak... but they're registered none the less.
 
D

dakota.potts

New member
They don't necessarily "know" any information about your firearms.

What goes through the check (at least the electronic check system) is your name, date of birth, place of birth, race, sex, residency, social security number (optional), and type of firearm - handgun, long gun, or other.

These are supposed to be destroyed after 48 hours IIRC.

The rest of the stuff that goes on the paperwork (like your address and the serial number) has to be kept locked up by the FFL for 20 years and given to the ATF if they surrender their license. The ATF can audit the paperwork once a year for correctness (a small number of papers taken to check) and any specific inquiry can't be done without a warrant, at least as far as I know.

There's no registry because the information isn't available at any given time. It is kept, but unlike an electronic search system, you really have to know exactly what gun and purchaser you're looking for already.

States may have more restrictive schemes though
 
4

44 AMP

Staff
For example, New York requires owners of handguns to register them, and IF you manage to get a carry permit, any and all guns you may wish to carry MUST be listed on the back of the permit.
Click to expand...

I grew up in NY, officially leaving the state as a residence in 79. I am absolutely certain of the accuracy of my information up to that point in time, and am 98-99% certain the pertinent facts have not changed since, so I must correct this statement, slightly.

NYS does NOT allow you to own ANY handguns until after it is registered. Period. A permit (with the gun on it, by make, caliber, barrel length and ser#) is required before you can possess the pistol, at all. Only Open Carry was allowed. (the standard permit. Special circumstances might qualify you for one of the rare (by NY standards) concealed carry permits, but ordinary folks (in the 70s) couldn't get them.)

5 sets of fingerprints, 4 "passport" type photographs, 3 character references, the fee ($20 at one time, now, I understand its $100?) a couple months wait (now a year in some places, or so I have heard), while every agency involved checks you out, and then, ultimately, entirely up to a judge to approve, or not, entirely at their whim. Each judge has their own ideas of what is suitable to be approved, or denied.

One judge I knew would only approve applications submitted for "hunting and sporting purposes". If self protection was the reason you applied for the permit (and you have to state the reason on the form) he would automatically disapprove your application.

Another judge, in the next county, would only approve permits for self protection. Any other reason, he would disapprove it.

Permits, being issued at the sold (pardon, sole) discretion of the issuing agency is still the situation that obtains in NY today (as far as I know). NY is NOT a 'shall issue" state, it is a "may issue" state.
 
L

ligonierbill

New member
I will be interested to see what PA has to say. They didn't have any problem issuing a CCW to this Ohioan. Guessing the AG has a website.
 
J

JimPage

New member
I'm from NY and have a concealed carry permit issued in 1960. Also a certified instructor of the pistol issuing officer in my county. No where in the state law does it allow anyone to "0pen carry" except in uniform like private security guards etc. Open carry is just not legal.

On the other hand, the law is not enforced for hunters who hunt while carrying a handgun. But it is technically not legal if the letter of the law is followed.

The only handgun that does not have to be registered is a cap and ball revolver for which the owner does not possess or own powder, caps, and ball to load it. Own/possess those items and the revolver must be registered.
 
Last edited:
2

2ndsojourn

New member
New Jersey requires a FOID card to purchase any firearm (even private FTF) or ammo. So I guess the polizei know who we are. (Although I know someone who has a card & doesn't own any guns, they got the card so they could buy their son's BB guns many years ago.)

When you buy ammo (from a retailer), your info is entered into a log book by the seller. Whether this is ever tracked, I don't know or see how, being as it's too cumbersome.

I don't know what info is reported by a retailer/FFL when buying a long gun, as I've never bought one here, but I've bought a couple 20 minutes over the bridge in Philly and I just showed my NJ FOID card, passed the NICS check & paid my money.

To buy a handgun, whether from a FFL or private FTF, a (4 part) permit is required. The info on the permit includes buyer, seller, mfgr, caliber & serial number & a copy is sent to state police & local PD. A copy is also retained by the buyer & seller. So, yes there's a registry for recently purchased handguns, but I don't know when the 'permit law' went into effect. What they don't know about are the guns I brought with me when I moved here (temporarily, but still here) that I accumulated over my time on the planet. There is a volunteer registry for all firearms for anyone who foolishly wishes to do so.

I get a kick out of the slanted news reports when someone's unregistered guns are found by the police.
 
D

dogrunner

Moderator
And in Florida it is illegal to maintain any registry or list. Heavy penalties attach to LEO/Gov't agancies.......including individual liability.

There are exceptions mentioned by statute, but they're few and specific.
 
J

JimDandy

New member
I wouldn't call NICS a registry, because they don't have the records. They have to go get the guy who owns the shop, and have him turn them over.

To me, a registry is something they can pull up on their computer (Or card files etc from way back when), and search by your name or other specific ID info, and pull up a list of what you own.

If they had to get your VIN, ask Chevy which car lot they sold it to, then ask the Car lot who they sold it to, then ask that guy who he sold it to, it's not really a registry.

Additionally, Are you asking about all guns, or do states that register only CERTAIN guns (i.e. handgun regsitries, assault weapon registries) count
 
I

imp

New member
I didn't start this thread with a lot of specifics in mind. Just that the term "registered" is thrown around by the media and the anti-gun crowd, and even here on this forum, and I decided that the pursuit of clarity was worth a discussion.
 
2

2ndsojourn

New member
I think they throw it around out of ignorance, thinking that there's a requirement of some sort for universal registry of guns.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top