With my aging eyes, I am considering mounting a red dot on my Ruger Super Blackhawk .454 Casull. I recently discovered a company called Griffonhill who makes a mount that uses the rear sight screw and rear sight pin on Blackhawks. I was wondering if anyone here was familiar with them. I am also curious what red dots can hold up to the recoil of a .454 Casull. Thanks.
Red dot on a revolver
- Thread starter AL45
- Start date
Sorry, I don't know that mount system and don't have a .454 Casull, so I can't give you advice on them from personal experience. I go from .44Mag/.45 Colt to .45-70 Contender.
I can give you a bit of advice on the red dot sight. First off, decide for yourself how long (how many shots) you think it ought to last on your gun. Then go see if you guessed right...
Somewhere around 15 years ago, I got a cheap red dot ($35 IIRC) don't remember the name right now, BSA, maybe.., anyway, got it basically to see how long it would last before breaking...Its on my .45-70 Contender and so far, has survived several hundred shots (standard ammo) ok.
I don't shoot groups with my single shot (bit of a waste of time and ammo, I think), but I do have it dialed in so I'm on the "dot". When the sun is just the "right" place, even dialed up to brightest, the dot isn't easy to see. The rest of the time, it does fine.
A higher end (more expensive) red dot sight might not have this problem, I don't know.
A couple of points to remember, always, always make sure the sight is OFF when you put the gun away. I was careful to do that, but even so, batteries don't last forever. What ever "coin type" battery the sight uses, get a couple packs of spares, store (and carry) one set with the gun.
IF you don't, Murphy will be your shepherd, and the exact one you need will be the one that WalMart is out of, or that the back country store doesn't carry.
Check the sight operability when you pack your gear, and have a spare battery stashed somewhere it won't be forgotten at home. Other wise, you will have a nice 0 power tube to look at your trophy through, if Murphy has gets to do his mischief.
I'm not unhappy with mine, it is easier to use than a scope, and I too am at the point where iron sights aren't as easy to use as they used to be...
For most of my life I was opposed to anything battery powered on my firearms. Today I have learned that they can have a place and work well within that place. Just remember the limits, and make allowances for them.
I can give you a bit of advice on the red dot sight. First off, decide for yourself how long (how many shots) you think it ought to last on your gun. Then go see if you guessed right...
Somewhere around 15 years ago, I got a cheap red dot ($35 IIRC) don't remember the name right now, BSA, maybe.., anyway, got it basically to see how long it would last before breaking...Its on my .45-70 Contender and so far, has survived several hundred shots (standard ammo) ok.
I don't shoot groups with my single shot (bit of a waste of time and ammo, I think), but I do have it dialed in so I'm on the "dot". When the sun is just the "right" place, even dialed up to brightest, the dot isn't easy to see. The rest of the time, it does fine.
A higher end (more expensive) red dot sight might not have this problem, I don't know.
A couple of points to remember, always, always make sure the sight is OFF when you put the gun away. I was careful to do that, but even so, batteries don't last forever. What ever "coin type" battery the sight uses, get a couple packs of spares, store (and carry) one set with the gun.
IF you don't, Murphy will be your shepherd, and the exact one you need will be the one that WalMart is out of, or that the back country store doesn't carry.
Check the sight operability when you pack your gear, and have a spare battery stashed somewhere it won't be forgotten at home. Other wise, you will have a nice 0 power tube to look at your trophy through, if Murphy has gets to do his mischief.
I'm not unhappy with mine, it is easier to use than a scope, and I too am at the point where iron sights aren't as easy to use as they used to be...
For most of my life I was opposed to anything battery powered on my firearms. Today I have learned that they can have a place and work well within that place. Just remember the limits, and make allowances for them.
Not familiar with the mounting system.
But I am familiar with Red dots on big bore handguns. It's a really elegant solution that allows you to use current holsters (usually) and deal with aging eye issues.
I have beat on several, as well as seeing what does and does not last long term on PCCs used in competition. The Burris FF4 really checks a lot of boxes for me. Auto-off, 4 reticles, light and rugged. I have one that I put on a 10mm. It lasted about 1K before it had issues, but it was an engineering demo, and I sent it back and they made the change to flood the connections with epoxy, which is in the production model. Since then, it has over 9K on it with no faults at all. I am going to put on on my .41 Magnum soon and heck, I might even put on on my Henry .45-70 lever gun. The 3 and 11 MOA dots cover a lot of bases, and the 3 MOA with the circle is a great combo for fast and precise at the same time.
I have been a long time fan of Holosun as well. They have a lot of different reticles, and you will need to try a few to see if a 2, 4, or 6 MOA dot meets you needs.
In my experience, the SIGs just don't last with heavy recoil. Aimpoints do, but they are pricey, and I don't really like their reticles for magnum handgun. Vortex does have a decent track record with the ones in the top half or so of their price levels. RMRs are extremely durable, but again, not as well suited for magnum handgun in the reticle choices.
But I am familiar with Red dots on big bore handguns. It's a really elegant solution that allows you to use current holsters (usually) and deal with aging eye issues.
I have beat on several, as well as seeing what does and does not last long term on PCCs used in competition. The Burris FF4 really checks a lot of boxes for me. Auto-off, 4 reticles, light and rugged. I have one that I put on a 10mm. It lasted about 1K before it had issues, but it was an engineering demo, and I sent it back and they made the change to flood the connections with epoxy, which is in the production model. Since then, it has over 9K on it with no faults at all. I am going to put on on my .41 Magnum soon and heck, I might even put on on my Henry .45-70 lever gun. The 3 and 11 MOA dots cover a lot of bases, and the 3 MOA with the circle is a great combo for fast and precise at the same time.
I have been a long time fan of Holosun as well. They have a lot of different reticles, and you will need to try a few to see if a 2, 4, or 6 MOA dot meets you needs.
In my experience, the SIGs just don't last with heavy recoil. Aimpoints do, but they are pricey, and I don't really like their reticles for magnum handgun. Vortex does have a decent track record with the ones in the top half or so of their price levels. RMRs are extremely durable, but again, not as well suited for magnum handgun in the reticle choices.
I know almost nothing about optics on handguns. I’m iron sight offhand shooter, both rifle and handgun. Not interested at all, but just put a Red Dot on a S&W 41 that I gave my son.
That thing is the berries. I just recovering from cataract surgery, awaiting period of time to pass before they test you for prescription lenses. Was at range with boy and his buddies and they were all smoking with the red dot, once more I was top shot. I can’t see back sights at all till it get my glasses. Sight is $300 job and guaranteed to take recoil. Ultradot/ matchdot 2 is make and model. I mounted it and my Bro sighted it in.
That thing is the berries. I just recovering from cataract surgery, awaiting period of time to pass before they test you for prescription lenses. Was at range with boy and his buddies and they were all smoking with the red dot, once more I was top shot. I can’t see back sights at all till it get my glasses. Sight is $300 job and guaranteed to take recoil. Ultradot/ matchdot 2 is make and model. I mounted it and my Bro sighted it in.
Thanks for the replies. I think the mount company is new, and I like the idea of the mount using the back sight pin instead of wrapping around the barrel. I have a Sig Romeo on a Ruger .308 Scout rifle and it has worked well so far. But I have heard of heavy recoiling guns quickly destroying red dots and certainly don't want to waste money through trial and error.
The idea of using the rear sight mount as part of (or all of) the scope base is not new, though its use has been more in rifles than handguns for a long time.
It was, I believe S&K that had a series of "no drill no tap" mounts for many guns which often used the rear sight mounting.
I have no idea if the barrel clamp on mounts would hold position on a.454. I know they work ok with lighter recoiling calibers.. .
The advantage I can see to the barrel clamp method is, that if your scope/dot OR the mount craps out, you still have the sights in place. That might mean the difference between the end of the day's hunt and a few minutes with a screwdriver...
Good Luck!
It was, I believe S&K that had a series of "no drill no tap" mounts for many guns which often used the rear sight mounting.
I have no idea if the barrel clamp on mounts would hold position on a.454. I know they work ok with lighter recoiling calibers.. .
The advantage I can see to the barrel clamp method is, that if your scope/dot OR the mount craps out, you still have the sights in place. That might mean the difference between the end of the day's hunt and a few minutes with a screwdriver...
Good Luck!
jackmoser65
New member
I don't know that that mount will hold up on a 454. There is literally nothing that is as harsh on optics and mounts as 454 revolver. You can try it and see.
I have a SBH Bisley Hunter in .44 mag, so it has the dovetail style cutouts to accept the Ruger rings. I purchased a weaver base that works with this system to mount my red dot, so I cannot help with the mounting system you are asking about.
I can, however, give my experience with the optics themselves. First off, I understand that you are asking about a .454 and not a .44. My load with my .44 is very heavy for a .44 and should not be duplicated. I'm pushing a 265gr bullet just under 1400fps and a 300gr bullet just shy of 1350fps using H-110 out of a 7.5" barrel. Very close to some of the factory options I've chronographed out of my buddies .454.
The red dot that I purchased is a Redfield, can't recall the model, but the price point was $110. That optic has held true for several hundred shots of full power loads and many more plinking loads in the 1100-1200 fps range. This has been a great optic from a structural standpoint, but it lacks in a couple areas. The fist downside is that there are no clicks for adjusting your point of aim when sighting in. This made it difficult for me to get my POA and POI to match up. The second downside is that the glass isn't very good. I get some distortion on my target that bugs the crap out of me. That said, I can still hit what I'm aiming at, guess that's all that really matters in the end.
I can, however, give my experience with the optics themselves. First off, I understand that you are asking about a .454 and not a .44. My load with my .44 is very heavy for a .44 and should not be duplicated. I'm pushing a 265gr bullet just under 1400fps and a 300gr bullet just shy of 1350fps using H-110 out of a 7.5" barrel. Very close to some of the factory options I've chronographed out of my buddies .454.
The red dot that I purchased is a Redfield, can't recall the model, but the price point was $110. That optic has held true for several hundred shots of full power loads and many more plinking loads in the 1100-1200 fps range. This has been a great optic from a structural standpoint, but it lacks in a couple areas. The fist downside is that there are no clicks for adjusting your point of aim when sighting in. This made it difficult for me to get my POA and POI to match up. The second downside is that the glass isn't very good. I get some distortion on my target that bugs the crap out of me. That said, I can still hit what I'm aiming at, guess that's all that really matters in the end.
Actually there are some things that are worse, and it is surprising what they are.
One of them is certain air rifles. Another is a receiver mounted scope on an Auto Mag.
Scopes rated for elephant guns have been killed by air rifles. Not because of the rearward recoil, which the scope is built to handle, but because of the forward "recoil" jolt which regular firearm scopes are rarely built to handle.
The recoil force of a .454 is HUGE for a handgun, but not as much as a heavy recoiling rifle, and then add in that the pistol recoils in your hands, and the give in your hands and arms softens the jolt to the scope a bit as well.
other than increasing the bulk of the pistol (may not fit in standard holster) and the fact they generally run off batteries, I don't really see much downside to a red dot on a sporting handgun.
black mamba
New member
The UltraDot 30 mm has a great reputation for standing up to recoil. In addition, it is light weight and easy/fast to acquire, as the tube seems to help line everything up. Much faster than a reflex sight. I have shot 340s at 1400 out of my 454 Casull with no problems.
jackmoser65
New member
Didn't know we were talking about air guns. Automag recoil should be relatively soft. I've seen them with cheap scopes and inexpensive two ring mounts.
Virtually no rifles are as harsh as a 454 revolver. Don't know of any that need three or four rings to keep their optics in place. A cheap scope may last 20 years on dad's 30/06 but not survive 20 shots on a 454.
I mentioned air guns as an illustration, because the "Forward recoil" of the spring action has been known to kill scopes.
Same thing for the Auto Mag. Its not the recoil, tis the sudden stop moving forward that most scopes are not built to take. Same reason you rarely see semi auto pistols with the scopes mounted directly on the slide. The "slam" to the scope when the slide shuts is something many scopes are not built to withstand. Some, are, many are not.
stinkeypete
New member
Respectfully, bullseye shooters used to mount red dot scopes on the slide of the 1911 all the time. That's how mine was.
The problem is adding to the reciprocating mass of the slide. For bullseye, we never shoot all that fast, so it was not an issue.
I have never heard of an Ultradot failing. They have a lifetime warranty. At least mine do.
Highly recommended.
The problem is adding to the reciprocating mass of the slide. For bullseye, we never shoot all that fast, so it was not an issue.
I have never heard of an Ultradot failing. They have a lifetime warranty. At least mine do.
Highly recommended.
I have almost exactly the same setup as black mamba with an Ultra Dot Dist. 30mm sight and the same base, on my Freedom Arms 7.5-inch .454. I have not had any problems with it, shooting 300gr Hornady XTP Mag bullets.
Interestingly, I first used an Aimpoint red dot sight that is more expensive than the Ultra Dot. It malfunctioned and I sent it back. It took several months to get it back since it was sent to Sweden (!!) After a period of time, the malfunction occurred again and I switched to the Ultra Dot.
I have the base attached to the rear sight area and it extended as far as that seen in the black mamba photo. There was no additional way to lock it into the revolver frame and I wasn't happy with the appearance of the base sticking out toward the muzzle. So I have the two rings back-to-back just at the rear sight area and I sawed off the front end so it doesn't extend beyond the cylinder frame. It apparently is stable enough because, as I said, I have zero problems with it.
I have the same setup on my Ruger Super Red Hawk in .44 Mag but the revolver allows for the installation of two rings, 2.5 inches apart, in a more conventional manner.
The Ultra Dot on this piece replaced a Tasco Pro-Point sight that I started with before red dots were popular. I installed the Tasco instead of the Burris 2-power conventional scope I had on it because I could not easily pick up the crosshair unless I had it exactly where it needed to be, and that cost me a shot at a deer one year. I changed to the Ultra Dot because is is shorter and looks better than the longer Pro-point.
Interestingly, I first used an Aimpoint red dot sight that is more expensive than the Ultra Dot. It malfunctioned and I sent it back. It took several months to get it back since it was sent to Sweden (!!) After a period of time, the malfunction occurred again and I switched to the Ultra Dot.
I have the base attached to the rear sight area and it extended as far as that seen in the black mamba photo. There was no additional way to lock it into the revolver frame and I wasn't happy with the appearance of the base sticking out toward the muzzle. So I have the two rings back-to-back just at the rear sight area and I sawed off the front end so it doesn't extend beyond the cylinder frame. It apparently is stable enough because, as I said, I have zero problems with it.
I have the same setup on my Ruger Super Red Hawk in .44 Mag but the revolver allows for the installation of two rings, 2.5 inches apart, in a more conventional manner.
The Ultra Dot on this piece replaced a Tasco Pro-Point sight that I started with before red dots were popular. I installed the Tasco instead of the Burris 2-power conventional scope I had on it because I could not easily pick up the crosshair unless I had it exactly where it needed to be, and that cost me a shot at a deer one year. I changed to the Ultra Dot because is is shorter and looks better than the longer Pro-point.