Rating a used firearm

[Willy]

Hello,
Can anyone point me to a resource on the web that explains how used firearms should be rated. I want to buy over the net but I don't know what constitutes 99%, 98% ect. If there is no place to go on the net, if someone could give me a short explanation of 99%, 98% and 97% that would also help me. Thanks in advance.
Willy

 

[Rob Pincus]

Good Questin, this perplexed me for years. I saw soemhting that looked perfect and then some Gunshop hero would call it 97% or some such.

Turns out That the slightest bit of use or wear will drastacally reduce the calue of a gun, Think of it as a car. When you leave the gun shop, you lose several percentage points of value.

I am a big fan of used guns for this reason, you can often find a fully functional gun, with minimal wear for 20-30% less than a new model.

The best description of the grading scales I have seen is in the 19th (latest) edition of the "BLue Book Of Gun Values". The guide comes with over 40 pages of large full color, high quality pictures of used guns from 100% to 25%, with detailed descriptions of WHY they are rated as they are.
They have pictures of everything from flint locks to an Olympic Arms AR Pistol. Many longguns, antiques and handguns are exampled.
I think this book would be a great resource for you.

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-Essayons

 

[Willy]

Thank you Rob,
Ya gotta love a book with pictures. I am surfing over to Amazon.com right after I write this.

 

[Paul B.]

Willie. Try barnes and Noble too. They had a book I have been searching for, for over twenty years. Called the PRINCIPLES AND PRACTICES OF LOADING AMMUNITION. Just a thought.
Paul B.

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[James K]

The percentage figures seen in many books are fine, but they apply to exterior condition and do not take into account how, or even whether, the gun functions. The setting of these figures is, furthermore, pretty subjective especially with guns that are so rare that few sales take place.

The real point is what a buyer wants a gun for. A S&W Model 19, as an example, shoots just as well whether the finish is 70% or 80% or 100%. If you are buying for use, you can ignore the finish unless it is so bad it indicates abuse, like buggered screw heads, scratches, buffing, etc. Use the outside condition to bargain with the seller - "Gee, a lot of the blue is gone, I couldn't pay over ..." You get the picture.

For collectors, the story is different, and outer condition is often more important than inner (like barrel) condition or even functioning.

The books often start at some figure like 60%, assuming no one would buy a gun with less finish. But if you want a hunting rifle to carry in snow and rain, why not save bucks and not have to worry about ruining the finish - it's already ruined.

 

[Willy]

Jim,
Good point about the exterior condition, as compared to its usefulness. I would add though that exterior condition, in the majority of the cases that I have seen, will give you an good idea about how the gun has been taken care of. There are some people that will use a tool and keep it in excellent funtional shape, but in my experience, they will also take steps to maintain the exterior appearance. The problem that I am running up against is that I don't have a base of knowledge about grading. When I talk to someone on the phone about a gun, the grade is one way to get an idea about what shape the weapon is in. I find your point about the grade being based solely on the exterior very interesting. I had no idea that interior condition or functionality did not bear on the grade.

 

[thaddeus]

I also care less about the exterior but find that that is a large portion of the rating. In my search for P7 M13's I have looked at many police trade-ins. Many are rated low because of holster wear. I immediatly take the slide off and look at the rails and feed ramp in an attempt to see how many rounds have been through it. I found one that had holster wear and was rated at like %90, but when I rattled the gun it was solid, so then I took the slide off, the rails had not even been broken in, there was no sign of feed ramp usage, and there was still some of the original packing grease in the gun! Needless to say, I bought a brand new P7 M13 for a very used price, just because of some holster wear.

I would be interested in other people's idea on how they check for how much a gun has been used. I am far from an expert, but those are some of the things that I look for to determine how much the gun has been fired and how many rounds have been through it.

thaddeus

 

[James K]

When you don't have the gun in hand, you have to ask questions and hope the seller is more honest than someone I could name.

Ask about exterior finish (I agree with Willy that it does indicate a degree of care) but also about where it came from. Most police guns see little firing and lots of carry wear. Guns used by some folks on this site would certainly be the reverse. Ask if gun is reblued or refinished. If so, best forget it, mainly because you don't know what it looked like before it was refinished. (There are exceptions: I'll take a genuine Colt Paterson for $100 even if it has been reblued.) Ask if it works OK, is loose, has had work done on it.

If you have the gun, following things to check:

Auto pistol:
Safety(ies) don't work, slide loose, barrel loose, trigger pull too light, screws buggered, pins loose, hammer drops when slide is dropped, hammer has no half-cock and is supposed to, mag release is too stiff or too easy, gun has a lot of "custom" features that might not work, barrel not rusted, worn out or bulged. Main question is if this is as good a gun as seller says it is, how come seller (or previous owner) wants to get rid of it?

Revolver:

Cylinder end shake, cylinder "wiggle" when cocked (some is normal in S&W and other revolvers), full cylinder lockup when fired normally (old Colt DAs won't when cocked slowly, but work OK when fired), hammer stays cocked can't be pushed off full cock,
DA pull is reasonable, safety block/transfer bar in place, barrel cylinder gap not too much or too little, no rust in barrel, barrel not worn out or bulged.

Obviously, knowing what to look at requires experience. Look at as many guns of the type you are interested in as possible, and get an idea of what is "normal". Some things are judgement calls, like a .45 M1911A1 with a shot out barrel. Barrels are easy to get and replace. If the gun other wise is OK, and price is right, maybe buy. But an S&W .44 Magnum with a shot out barrel had better be real cheap; barrel replacement will cost bucks.

 

[thaddeus]

Jim,

If you have been screwed through the mail or by a dealer, then why not post the name of the individual? This is the i-net where we share info and the only power that the lowly average consumer has these days to get true info from others who have nothing to sell. I say, if someone is out there being dishonest, it is your duty to post their name so that others are forewarned.

JMHO,
thad

 

[Jeff Thomas]

Willy, I'm planning to buy the "BLue Book Of Gun Values" as well, but note that the 1999 edition is not out yet. And, the 1998 edition costs the same. It appears that the 1999 edition will be out in May, so I'm planning on buying next month. FYI.

 

[James K]

In using the Blue Book, remember that those are retail prices, the prices you might expect to pay from a dealer or on a private sale. If you are selling a gun to a dealer, remember that he must make a buck. He cannot buy and sell at the same price and stay in business. Also, a dealer obviously won't buy a currently produced gun for more than he would pay for the same gun wholesale.

If you are selling, the Blue Book is still handy to have. Note of interest: unlike other books, price books often don't have a date, just the edition number. This makes it easy for one perhaps less than ethical dealer who gives a seller the full book price, and shows the book to prove his generosity. The dealer doesn't tell the seller that the book dates from 1978.