Rainer 200 grain semi-wadcutters and my 1911.

[mattgreennra]

I bought Rainer plated SWC @ 200 grain .45.
I setup a load w/ my springfield-armory full-size 1911. My hornady reloading manual said to use 1.200 or 1.235. I made a bunch of dummy rounds to check COL and rounds w/ COL of 1.252 seemed to be the sweet spot for my gun anything shorter fed really badly.
I loaded 4.8 grains of titegroup w/ cci primers and mixed brass. I made 25 and shot them all today. I got 2 failures to feed, down from about 50% w/ these wadcutters. All failure to feeds seem to be cause on the shoulder of the bullet of on the brass when it's at the steepest angle. These rounds are set to a fairly tight crimp in order to keep the brass/bullet combo. one unit and reduce snagging.

I've heard lots of things from a bunch of people saying their guns just don't like wadcutters. Well I've got 2000 cause of a deal and I'm not giving up yet. I got about a 8%ish fail to feed rate, I want to take that to 0%.
I've also heard things about taking my gun to a gunsmith to have the barrel chamfered or something.

I've looking for ideas how to fix this w/o a gunsmith. I noticed that the gun will almost always chamber/function when I manually work the slide for the 1st round, but when I close it w/ the mag release it seems to hangup more. I was going to make a small batch @ 5.0 grains instead of 4.8 b/c I think a slightly "harsher" or stronger slide movement will help.

Any ideas, thoughts, past experiences? I appreciate the help.

(My 1911 feeds normally w/ no problem with basically everything I've thrown at it in standard mags, including hollow points)

 

[nass]

OAL may be an issue. I use 1.225". this puts the shoulder just above the case.

Do your FTFs happen only on the first round? Do you use the slide lock to release the slide? If so, stop that habit. Grasp the top of the slide, pull it all the way back, and let her fly home.

Mags are likely to be the issue, even though you don't have a problem with Ball ammo. The release point for wadcutters needs to be more gradual because of the lack or rounded ogive. Check out the M1911's magazine forum and look for a sticky thread labeled Magazine timing.

Most importantly, don't give up.

 

[benedict1]

I am at a loss to explain your problem.

I load 5.2 gr Green Dot, 200 gr Rainier SWC to OAL of 1.245-1.250" I shoot them in a Wilson Classic; a Kimber customized by Wilson; and a Glock 21 with a KKM Match barrel. I have zero problems with FTF/FTE.

The only thought--is your powder charge big enough to work the action properly? And, what weight recoil spring is in the gun?

 

[mattgreennra]

When the slide is locked open after emptying a mag and I insert a fresh one it jams. To prevent this, I close the slide before I reload.

The 8% jam rate is w/ manual release of the slide. I did try use slightly shorter bullets before, but I obviously haven't gotten the right setup yet. I'm thinking maybe 1.240 & 1.260 for 2 small batches.

 

[nass]

If the FTF is happening only on the first round, and not during normal firing, you have enough powder to work the action completely... The problem is using that button. Stop that habit now, and rack it like you mean it from a slide locked open.

That's the way it's supposed to be operated.

 

[mattgreennra]

What I meant to say was the failures happened when the gun was cycling itself. In all my tests I've been manually grasping the slide to release it. The jams occur after teh brass from a bullet exits after firing and the next round being fed locks up.

 

[JeffreyCGill]

Same Problem

I have a Springfield Loaded 1911 5 inch barrel, I have always shot 230 grain hard cast round nose with no problems but recently due to cost I decided to start casting my own. I did research on the misinformation highway known as the internet and most 1911 45 shooters said the H&G #68 200 gr. LSWC was the best bullet for the 1911. They were wrong....I have about 10% FTF.
It might occur after the first shot or second, third, fourth and so on. It is not due to using the slide release. I do not use the slide release.
I have tried various lengths as well. I have determined that they are all due to the case catching on the magazine lips due to the blunt end of the bullet hitting the top of the chamber as it is being pushed forward. This is where a round nose bullet doesn't contact because of its profile. The easiest way to see this is that when you have the FTF, simply point the gun in a safe direction and hit the magazine release button, when the magazine drops slightly freeing the bullet the slide goes home and chambers the bullet. You can modify the magazines slightly to eliminate this or sell the bullets and try something different. I'm just gonna melt mine down and make them into 230 gr. LRN.

 

[Kruzr]

I've loaded 1000's of Rainier 200 gr. SWC's for my 1911's. There are two "magic" numbers I've found to work with them. 1. OAL = 1.250 (no "shoulder at the case mouth" for plated.) 2. Crimp = .469 (+.000).

 

[benedict1]

Ditto. I keep OAL ~1.245-50" and have no problem with three different guns.

Edit: I also find the Lee Factory Crimp Die removes this kind of stuff and use it on all calibers--9mm, .45 ACP and .38 Special/.357 Mag.

 

[Splat!!]

I too was having problems like that , the factory crimp die cured it.....I am crimped pretty tight...........................

 

[Paul B.]

Jeffery said, "I did research on the misinformation highway known as the internet and most 1911 45 shooters said the H&G #68 200 gr. LSWC was the best bullet for the 1911. They were wrong....I have about 10% FTF."

I have five 1911 handguns and one SIG P-220 and all will feed the H&G #68 without a bobble. It will also feed the SAECO #068 which is a copy of the H&G mould, but has a bevel base. All my 1911s will also feed the Lyman #452389, a wadcutter bullet. I haven't tried it in the SIG yet.
have you checked the OAL on the rounds that jammed? Maybe a slight change in seating depth will cure the problem. I remember having to tinker with that a bit to get reliable feeding.
The only other suggestion I can think of is to have the throat and feed ramp polished. I did that to all my 1911s and I feel it was worthwhile. It does make a difference. Even my Combat Commnder will feed those wadcutters since I did a polish job of the gun. If you don't know how to do it though, take it to a very competent gunsmith. Do it wrong and you'll have more problems.
Paul B.

 

[arkie2]

My Lee manual says you're running the minimum recommended powder load for titegroup and 200 grain bullet. I have a Springfield mil spec and shoot 200 grain SWC with 5.0 grains of titegroup and the gun runs great. I would suggest increasing your powder load a bit and see if that doesn't help the gun cycle better.

 

[JeffreyCGill]

Midway USA actually sells a tool to help fix this problem...
This little piece of metal is $82. It reforms the magazine feed lips.
I won't go that far. I did put a tighter crimp on it and after shooting 75 I only had 2 FTF but both were due to the case being messed up and I missed it when I reloaded because I was in a hurry to try shooting. So maybe a tighter crimp is the answer. I use 5.4 gr WIN231 powder. OAL is now 1.235More experimenting coming...

This is the actual link to the page that has this tool
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=721582

Swenson Magazine Lip Forming Tools 1911 45 ACP

Tool gently reforms 1911 magazine feed lips to more reliably accept 45 ACP wadcutter ammunition.

 

[mattgreennra]

Here's the current plan. I made a new batch of what my buddy nicknamed the SWC, the "crayola bullets." The problem is that I went to the range last saturday and FORGOT THE BRING THEM.... The range is 50-55 minutes from my apartment... I was pissed. I still need to test my batch of 25 w/ a different length and a slightly higher power charge.

I also did a little drop-in work on my 1911. I ordered a 18.5 lb recoil spring instead of the 16 and I figure if that may help w/ the wadcutters. If it does, I may just use the stronger spring for them, and pop in the 16 for my RN. I'll try those and see if I get any luck.

I already polished my feed ramp w/ a dremel and cotton ends. It did wonders. I very slightly chamfered the end of the barrel (magazine end) to help the chambering. Next time I break down my 1911 I will polish the (mag end) of the barrel a little bit.

 

[Splat!!]

Well...........I Thought I had my feed problem fixed, I am sick of trying them I am selling them off.............45 ACP 200 grain FMJ combat / target semi-wad
and going to load Round nose...........My 230 grain Golden Sabers feed fine.
I have about 400 left .

 

[James A. Mullins]

Hi, I'am James. You mentioned you use mixed cases. Do you trim them all to the same length? I cast my own led #68's and had a problem of ftf problems. I was also using mixed brass. Anyhow I checked the length and found a difference in each manufacture length. I went and bought a Lee cutter and stud for 45 acp. Seperated all my brass according to brand. I trimed about 500 over several days. Real hard on the fingers. This solved the problem. So far I've never had to repeat. Since that time I invested in a good Forester Trimmer. Much easier on the fingers. In order to crimp to the same place on all cases I now size the length of all brass.
Cheers James

 

[Walkalong]

I load the 200 Gr. Ranier at 1.265 and it has fed very well for me in several 1911's. I like AA# 2 & AA# 5 for this bullet. Universal does pretty good and WSF should work well, but I have not tried it yet. I don't care for Tightgroup.

 

[joneb]

Welcome to the TFL Walkalong

 

[Walkalong]

Thanks. I was having withdrawals from THR being down.

 

[John28226]

Barrel work

Neither of my 1911s would feed SWC until the throat of the barrel was modified by a very good gunsmith. After that 100 percent function.

JOhn
Charlotte, NC (aka Mayberry)