Quickload Users - Want to run some numbers?

[FrankenMauser]

My grandfather has a Marlin 336 that had the chamber opened to .30-30 Ackley Improved. With the new, "improved" status, he tried to treat the cartridge like it was .300 Win Mag ...and stretched the action.

For years, he bragged that he was pushing a 180 gr bullet to 2,800+ fps, and a 150 gr bullet to over 3,000 fps.
He DID stretch the action and ruin the rifle, and he was using a chronograph to test his loads at the time. So, there's no doubt in my mind that he was really flirting with disaster, but I still have my doubts about the claimed velocities.

So, I'm curious...
What does Quickload think about those scenarios?

His "180 gr bullet" was likely a Sierra Game King, if it was even a 180, rather than a 170.
The "150 gr bullet" probably would have been a Sierra or Speer product. But, given his affinity for spitzers, it may not have been a flat point or round nose.
He used anything he could get for free, but preferred Winchester brass.
Preferred powders were 4895, 4064, and 4831 for almost all rifle cartridges (brand didn't matter - he used them interchangeably).
And, the rifle had a 19.5" barrel.


If anybody is curious and has the time to see what Quickload has to say about trying to achieve those velocities, I'd really appreciate it.

 

[jepp2]

Bullet selection was very limited. This is about as close as I could get to your request. 2X the max pressure to achieve 3000 fps.

[URL=http://s860.photobucket.com/user/jepp2/media/3030AICase_zps55dfa3fc.jpg.html] [/URL]

 

[steve4102]

Preferred powders were 4895, 4064, and 4831

H or IMR?

 

[FrankenMauser]

Anything in the QL database. As mentioned above:
"Preferred powders were 4895, 4064, and 4831 for almost all rifle cartridges (brand didn't matter - he used them interchangeably)."



Thanks, jepp2.
124% load density... That sure would be difficult to cram in the case.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

I don't believe that would be possible, or at least not easy.

For a Sierra 150gr..


Giving it a 65,000 psi max and tweaking the case capacity for a more likely number and allowing for 112% compressed charges, the best I can get is 2,738fps with IMR3031.

If I give it 95,000psi it says Win748 can get you to 2,985fps.

There's a real practical limit right around 112% case fill. It's going to start distorting cases and requiring sizing after finishing to get it back in spec.

IMR4895 says 2,868fps at 115% capacity and 77,000psi. 4064 would never fit enough in. 4831 is worse yet... doesn't go over pressure even at 115% fill and low velocity.

 

[std7mag]

One of the things I have been wondering...

With the Ackley Improved conversions, what effect does the increased case capacity have with Quick Load??

Wouldn't you have to include the increased capacity of the case to get "accurate" measurements????

 

[mehavey]

Wouldn't you have to include the increased capacity of the case to get "accurate" [QuickLoad] measurements????

QL does account for AI volume differences

EX: (gr water)
30-06 Springfield - 68.2
30-06 Ackley Imp - 70.0

30-30 Win - 44/45.0 (SAAMI vs CIP)
30-30 AI - 48.6

But concern for possible pre-loaded data is largely moot since QL also allows the user to
enter his own measure water volume for each case/manufacturer/wildcat alteration.

 

[mehavey]

(Other than this, I have no opinion)

 

[FrankenMauser]

Thanks, guys.
That's definitely interesting to look at.


Brian, your numbers actually look somewhat plausible, considering that he completely ruined the rifle by stretching the action, but never had a catastrophic failure.
He blew a lot of primers, stretched a lot of case heads, had dozens and dozens of case head separations, and who knows what else (that he didn't tell us about); but the rifle never went to 'kaboom' phase before he blamed the problems on the gunsmith for "cutting the chamber too deep."

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Yeah, but that's still over 100 fps low and at 115% capacity. I have serious doubts you could get that much powder in the case without extreme measures like post sizing.

 

[std7mag]

Seated bullet with 12 ton shop press????

Just kidding of course!!!

As with automotive mechanics, you see the weirdest chit that people do...

 

[FrankenMauser]

Yeah, but that's still over 100 fps low

I think it's safe to assume (I'm sure you did from the beginning), that he didn't reach the claimed velocities.

However, the figures you posted show that it was possible (though dangerous and stupid) to reach velocities within the realm of the average redneck's "velocity rounding error".

"2,738 on a cloudy day... Hoorah! That's gonna be 3,000 fps when the sun's shinin'!"

 

[Unclenick]

Also, the more time passes, the more I see folks comment on chronographs reading incorrectly due to being too close to rifle muzzle blast. Some have reported having to get out to 20 feet with larger capacity chamberings before the readings get believable and consistent. Keep in mind that the sphere of the muzzle blast will obey the inverse square law, so a sky screen at 20 feet will see 1/4 the blast one at 10 feet sees. Unburned powder grains probably scatter non-linearly with distance when they start to tumble, so I'm not going to speculate on their exact pattern change over that difference in distance. It could be considerably more.

Anyway, I'm thinking maybe he had the box too close to the muzzle.