quickload help, 44spl at 44mag levels

[Shadow9mm]

CAUTION: The following post (or a page linked to) includes or discusses loading data not covered by currently published sources of tested data for this cartridge (QuickLOAD or Gordon's Reloading Tool data is not professionally tested). USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information.

So I am loading 44Spl cases for use in a 44mag chambered rifle, a modern production steel framed henry with a 20in barrel. I do not have a 44spl gun and will NOT be sharing with anyone so there is no chance of them ending up in an actual 44spl gun.

I happened upon a box of some Barnes 200g TAC-XP bullets for 44spl (too long for magnum cases) and they followed me home.

44spl Starline brass
CCI #300 large pistol primers
Barnes 200g Tac-XP
Power Pistol, start 8.5 max 12.0?
firm roll crimp into the groove
COL 1.592

Based on a little digging in my manuals I decided on a start of 8.5 as that is around max for 44spl pressures (15k PSI).

I ran some number in Gordons Reloading Tool, As near as I can tell 12.0g will give me 31,125PSI, and about 1708fps.

I understand these tools are not always dead on accurate, or at least that has been my experience. This is why I did not push too close up towards the 36,000 PSI cap of 44mag.

I loaded 1 of each on 0.5g increment from 8.5 to 12.0, plan is to shoot 1, check for pressure signs, repeat unless I have problems. I know its far from an ideal method, but its all I have.

If someone with quickload could run this to cross check I would greatly appreciate it. I have no problem pushing up to 44mag pressures I'm just not trying to go over 44mag pressures.

Thanks!

 

[Unclenick]

CAUTION: The following post (or a page linked to) includes or discusses loading data not covered by currently published sources of tested data for this cartridge (QuickLOAD or Gordon's Reloading Tool data is not professionally tested). USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information.

I'm getting 12.5 Max from GRT, and 12.9 Max from QL. This is based on first taking Alliant's listed PP load for a standard cup and core bullet, seeing what pressure comes up in the software, then substituting the higher start pressure and greater length Barnes bullet with the very slight COL difference and adjusting the charge to match the predicted Alliant pressure value. In both programs, the predicted velocity was not quite 4% higher than Alliant gave. Assuming that holds up, the average result will be a muzzle velocity from an 8.3" single-shot pistol barrel of 1473 fps.

 

[44 AMP]

This is why I did not push too close up towards the 36,000 PSI cap of 44mag.

Do understand that number is SAAMI's upper working load limit for commercial ammunition and well below the actual safety boundary of the cartridge, and your gun.

 

[Unclenick]

Yes. That would be more in the range of proof loads. Even the SAAMI spec allows that one round out of ten that average 36000 psi can be as high as 42,600 psi if the stars line up in the most extreme possible way. And that's still below the low end of the proof range.

 

[pete2]

Just don't blow your self up loading like this. Make sure someone doesn't mistakenly load one of these over loads in a .44 Special revolver.

 

[Unclenick]

In another post on this general topic, he stated he has no 44 Special guns. But he will have to be sure to label boxes so nobody with one is tempted to try.

 

[Shadow9mm]

Oh yes, every box gets a label with all the data, including notes. And like I said, no 44spl only guns, and I don't give my stuff out, or leave it laying around.

Looking forward to tinkering with these. Will report back after I get my range testing done next week. Only have 40 of these total. going from 8.5 to 12.0 only 1 round each. If that goes well I will do a 7rnd test at whatever load I settle on.

Thanks again.

 

[P Flados]

CAUTION: The following post (or a page linked to) includes or discusses loading data not covered by currently published sources of tested data for this cartridge (QuickLOAD or Gordon's Reloading Tool data is not professionally tested). USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information.


As requested.

Cartridge          : .44 S&W Special (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .429, 200, Barnes TAC-XP  30539
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.592 inch = 40.44 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : Alliant POWER PISTOL

CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms
-18.2   57     9.00   1362     824   16650   1102     95.7    1.712  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-16.4   58     9.20   1386     853   17339   1127     96.2    1.680  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-14.5   59     9.40   1408     881   18050   1152     96.7    1.635  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-12.7   61     9.60   1431     909   18782   1175     97.2    1.607  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-10.9   62     9.80   1453     938   19537   1199     97.6    1.580  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-09.1   63    10.00   1475     967   20314   1222     98.0    1.554  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-07.3   64    10.20   1497     996   21115   1244     98.3    1.529  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-05.5   66    10.40   1519    1025   21939   1265     98.6    1.504  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-03.6   67    10.60   1540    1054   22787   1286     98.9    1.481  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-01.8   68    10.80   1562    1083   23660   1306     99.2    1.458  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0   70    11.00   1582    1112   24558   1325     99.4    1.436  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.8   71    11.20   1603    1141   25481   1344     99.5    1.415  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.6   72    11.40   1624    1171   26431   1362     99.7    1.394  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.5   73    11.60   1644    1200   27406   1379     99.8    1.374  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+07.3   75    11.80   1664    1230   28410   1396     99.9    1.354  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+09.1   76    12.00   1684    1259   29440   1412    100.0    1.336  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     70    11.00   1632    1183   28141   1277    100.0    1.370  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     70    11.00   1513    1016   21081   1326     95.7    1.528  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

 

[Shadow9mm]

CAUTION: The following post (or a page linked to) includes or discusses loading data not covered by currently published sources of tested data for this cartridge (QuickLOAD or Gordon's Reloading Tool data is not professionally tested). USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information.


As requested.

Cartridge          : .44 S&W Special (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .429, 200, Barnes TAC-XP  30539
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.592 inch = 40.44 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : Alliant POWER PISTOL

CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms
-18.2   57     9.00   1362     824   16650   1102     95.7    1.712  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-16.4   58     9.20   1386     853   17339   1127     96.2    1.680  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-14.5   59     9.40   1408     881   18050   1152     96.7    1.635  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-12.7   61     9.60   1431     909   18782   1175     97.2    1.607  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-10.9   62     9.80   1453     938   19537   1199     97.6    1.580  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-09.1   63    10.00   1475     967   20314   1222     98.0    1.554  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-07.3   64    10.20   1497     996   21115   1244     98.3    1.529  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-05.5   66    10.40   1519    1025   21939   1265     98.6    1.504  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-03.6   67    10.60   1540    1054   22787   1286     98.9    1.481  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-01.8   68    10.80   1562    1083   23660   1306     99.2    1.458  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0   70    11.00   1582    1112   24558   1325     99.4    1.436  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.8   71    11.20   1603    1141   25481   1344     99.5    1.415  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.6   72    11.40   1624    1171   26431   1362     99.7    1.394  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.5   73    11.60   1644    1200   27406   1379     99.8    1.374  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+07.3   75    11.80   1664    1230   28410   1396     99.9    1.354  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+09.1   76    12.00   1684    1259   29440   1412    100.0    1.336  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     70    11.00   1632    1183   28141   1277    100.0    1.370  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     70    11.00   1513    1016   21081   1326     95.7    1.528  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Thanks!

 

[Shadow9mm]

So I did testing today.

Henry rifle 20in barrel
44spl Starline brass
CCI #300 large pistol primers
Barnes 200g Tac-XP
Power Pistol, start 8.5 max 12.0?
firm roll crimp into the groove
COL 1.592

Only tested 1 round per powder charge level as I only have 40... well had 40, of these starting out, now I have 32....

8.5, 1117fps
9.0, 1196fps
9.5, 1217fps
10.0, 1304fps
10.5, 1408fps
11.0, 1493fps
11.5, 1522fps
12.0, 1577fps

 

[Unclenick]

That's pretty consistent efficiency. Normally you would figure double the powder charge and you double velocity and the energy goes up as the square of velocity, so it would go up by a factor of four in that scenario. Here, you've increased the powder charge by a factor of 12/8.5 or 1.412, just under the square root of 2 (1.414), so the velocity would go up that much and the energy as the square of that and would be expected to almost double across that load span. Sure enough, 1577²/1117² is 1.993 times the energy. So you must be getting pretty complete and efficient burning of the powder across that span to get numbers is such good agreement with the expected trend. That is part of what tells us the powder choice is a very reasonable one for the application at the pressures involved.