Questions about the 6.5 Creedmoor

[samsmix]

I have been looking at the ballistics of the 6.5 CM, and while they ARE impressive for such a small case, haven't they just reinvented the .270 Winchester and the 260 Remington here, ballistically speaking?

What does this cartridge do that the other two don't? Why is it the next big thing?

 

[fourbore]

The 270 is a standard length ctg and heavier action using more powder and generates recoil for higher energy. While in the same general class it is far from the same. I personally find the whole idea of 277 bullets in a world of 264 and 284 pretty obnoxious.

The 260 on the other hand is very similar and now (IMHO) we are splitting hairs. The 6.5 is a shorter case and will take a longer bullet ogive (nose) and compensate for the shorter case with steeper shoulder and perhaps less taper. I am speaking without reviewing the specs so I may be corrected. The 6.5 by design should have an accuracy and efficiency edge with the steep shoulder. Probably with a fast barrel twist option and early on a choice of long range weapons (with the accompanying advertising) the 260 would have got it done just as well as the parent 308 does in its respective power range at the same tasks. The 260 and 308 share same case dimensions, while the 6.5 has been tweaked.

The 308 key design was enough taper shoulder and case for combat reliability. The 260 is based on this case, no change. The CM is modified with the focused on efficiency and match shooting. I like the 260 but I got myself pretty heavily invested in 7mm-08 and never owned any gun in 6.5.

The 223 and 556 are very close too, but; not the same. They differ in pressure, chamber dimension and again in application. Similarly not the same. Both have a place.

Then there is the 6.5x55 which is another fine ctg. A tad long for medium length actions and the spec calls for lower pressure. Ideal for hunting and accurate but certainly not fine tuned for long range competition. I read here some were using the 6.5x55 for long range work.

If a person wished to keep his life simple, just stick with the 308.

 

[samsmix]

I have a .30-06, so the .308 really doesn't blow my skirt up. It is an "okay brush gun" by prairie standards.

I am liking that the 6.5CM is bettering the '06 in trajectory, and even matching the 300 Win Mag in this category... But the .270 was already doing this I think. The .260 seems like it wastes a little of it's potential.

The 6.5 Swede seems like it could really shine for a hand loader, but not with factory ammo. I don't reload, so...not x55 for me.

 

[Txhillbilly]

The 6.5 Creedmoor fixed a problem that the 260 Remington has with loading the heavy/longer match bullets near the barrel lands and still be able to fit into a short action magazine. The case design has two functions-It is shorter than the 260,but with the shoulder design is very efficient when it comes to burning the powder and gives close to the same velocities as the 260.

Guy's will argue which is better. I like & shoot both of them,as well as a 6.5-06. The 6.5-06 does everything the short action 6.5's do,and does it better/faster/farther.

 

[MarkCO]

I had a .260 in a gas gun and a have one in a bolt gun. I had a 6.5CM in a bolt gun and have one in a gas gun.

While the 6.5 will run well in either, it solved some issues in running .260s in gas guns. I prefer the .260 in the bolt guns and would never again try one in a gas gun. I think this reason may keep the 6.5CM in the running and maybe outpace the .260 at some point, especially with Ruger and a few others offering it in factory rifles.

In a hunting application, I'd take the longer .30-06 case without a care. In competition, the shorter case reduces the chance of a short stroke working the bolt, and it is also a tad faster. While the pressure curves do slightly favor the short cases, it is minimal and insignificant for the shooting I do...1/10th MOA is not something I am chasing.

 

[johnwilliamson062]

In practical terms I think it boils down to:
The 260 and 270 are not practical for match shooting and have some issues in semi-autos.

The 6.5 CM works fine for hunting, in a semi-auto, and at 1000 yard matches.

 

[samsmix]

I realize this is on a semi auto forum, but I am probably looking at a bolt. The CM seems to see the most use in semi autos though, and that's why I asked here.

Thanks for all the info. I REALLY wish the 6.5-06 was a bit more common. With a long throat and long bullets it would be a great non-magnum magnum.

 

[fourbore]

In an ideal world, we would have the 6.5-06, 7mm-06 (not 280) and 30-06. Then the 308, 7mm-08 and 260. Today, it is what it is and there really are no gaps in the field. You ask about 6.5cm, but seem like your looking for a hunting round. You got to pick one, and the choice depends on what you need to supplement your 30-06. Lighter gun, more distance, less power. Or do you plan to shoot 500 to 1000 yards steel plates? The 30-06 was used for long range target shooting for many years.

IMHO, What made to 6.5x55 great was heavy bullets at very effective velocity. Only you know what matters to you. I get a lot of mileage out of the 7mm-08 but I dont live in Montana. I also have a 30-06, it is simply overkill for my hunting and you can guess from my moniker, if overkill is the goal, I will go much larger.

I will go out on a limb and wild a guess, you would be very happy with something like an excellent light weight Kimber or even a Rem Model 7, if they are any good these days, in 260. That is since you are interested in 264 bullets. The 7mm-08 is popular for good reason, negligible recoil in light guns. The 260 probably just a little less of the same.

 

[MarkCO]

Is this for target shooting or hunting? I'd rather have a 6mm for target/match shooting and a 7mm or larger for hunting. The 6.5mms are a good middle ground, and I like my .260 a lot, but it is jealous of the 6mms and the hunting guns.

 

[Jim Watson]

What does this cartridge do that the other two don't?

Puts money in Hornady's pocket.

It is a good round, especially well balanced for target shooting.
There was a time when the .260 was the smart choice, when Lapua started selling .260 brass of better quality than Remington. But it looks like the CM has gained most of that market back. And nobody talks about the 6.5x47 Lap much any more.

 

[alex0535]

The main advantage to the creedmoor is being slightly shorter than a .308 allows for longer higher bc bullets to be loaded and still feed from a .308 length magazine. This results in less drop and wind drift. But you load that same bullet in the .260 with lapua brass that wouldn't magazine feed in a .260 and push it faster, the 260 will beat the wind and have less drop better than the creedmoor.

Inside 1000 yards you can have accuracy with even less powder. The 6.5x47 lapua was what they came up with when they designed a case for the most inherent accuracy at 300 meters, but it's still happily supersonic at 1000 and the heavy gun record for it is 1.5" or so at 1000.

It has the same one brass maker as hornady with the creedmoor, I'd rather be stuck with lapua brass. But the .260 Remington has the greatest variety of brass sources including lapua now, so I think that it's way more practical. For hunting inside 200 yards and a good way beyond if i hunted that far I don't need uber high bc vld bullets that won't magazine feed. I could hand feed those on the bench like most folks do.

 

[alex0535]

So do you need a bolt action or AR-10 in .260 rem but want to be able to feed rounds from a .308 length magazine with bullets that would be too long in that magazine if it were a .260 instead? If I was a military sniper and lapua made creedmoor brass, there's worst things to be behind than a 6.5 creedmoor with some long range bullets. .300 win mag trajectory, but with far less recoil, makes it easy to shoot for as long as necessary, ammo takes up less space thus you can carry more. It's big in the precision rifle sport, 10 round magazine of more accurate bullets when time and accuracy are important.

Also do you handload or not? 6.5 creedmoor ammo is pretty inexpensive for how well it shoots, it's hard to load it as cheap as you can buy it, the only reason you reload the creedmoor is to use the brass fired in your chamber to produce even more accurate ammo, but it probably won't cost less after any amount of time is figured in.

 

[stagpanther]

sorry--wrong spot!

 

[Palmetto-Pride]

If Remington had supported the 260 REM i.e. chambered more rifles in it and with the correct twist rate of 1-8 or 1-9 and produced some match ammo for it. The 6.5CM would more than likely would never have been produced.

 

[samsmix]

It would be for hunting deer and antelope, for my wife. I like the 300 mag trajectory, adequate power, and light recoil. I actually don't want a true lightweight, as I hunt out on the prairie mostly, and this rifle would never see the mountains. An 8 pound rifle simply settles down and shoots easier if there is wind.

Probably going to retain fairly classic sporting rifle lines...but an AR-10 isn't out of consideration, as she is Military and likes the AR platform. No big heavies or tactical bolt guns, as they just don't fly to the shoulder for a running deer (that's another thread).

Probably won't be reloading.

 

[TimW77]

"The 260 and XXX are not practical for match shooting and..."

You must be kidding!

Don't know where you come upi with this BS...

T.

 

[GeauxTide]

Ok, a few thousandths shorter and a more curvey neck. Looking at the load data, the velocity/charges is about the same, so I don't know about efficiency gains. With 120-129s, my 260 likes RL-19. If I'm looking for more performance, I pick up my 6.5-06, throated for 140SMK. Throws them 2935from 24"........

 

[johnwilliamson062]

Don't know where you come upi with this BS...

What competitive rifle shooters are using those cartridges in competition? Not a local club shoot, but real competitors. I'm not at that level or desiring to be, but it seems almost universally accepted by people who are that the 260 design precludes being successfully used at all but the lower levels of competition.

 

[samsmix]

GeauxTide,

That seems to be what I am getting out of all of this, and since I don't hand load, and the 6.5-06 isn't available commercially, and the .25-06 tops out at 120gr....I'm right back to the 270/150gr for a similar capability, albeit with a bit more recoil.

 

[alex0535]

I think to decide on the 260, 270, 6.5 creedmoor conundrum you should walk into your favorite local places to buy ammo and pick the one that is most available or most affordable to shoot if you are not a reloader.

If you are a reloader, compare the prices and availability of the various components.

They will all kill the game you're after at distances that are probably beyond ethical given how far these animals can move in a second of flight time, changes in wind, and an excited person making a cold bore shot at range toward a buck.