Ive got and old Lee Progressive Press, a 3 die Lee set of 8MM Mauser Dies. Ive got .323 Speer bullets . Powder, and primers. Lyman trimmer and Dremmel tool. I plan to make brass from 30 06. My question is after I trim to leingth will it damage my lee dies when I expand the necks ? And also after i form my cases if I fire form them and neck size them with a set of neck size dies will they stik cycle through a Mauser Action ? Any help is apreciated.
questions about forming 8X57 Cases
- Thread starter TX Hunter
- Start date
I can't imagine expanding the necks from .308 to .323 will hurt your die. Those expander balls are pretty tough, especially compared to brass.
I guess when you say 'cycle through a Mauser action' you mean 'will the cases fit the chamber without a lot of force required to close the bolt'. Is that correct? You'll have to try it and see. I usually full length resize cases formed from a different caliber, but after shooting them some they usually will fit the chamber with neck sizing only. Depends on the individual case and the individual rifle.
I guess when you say 'cycle through a Mauser action' you mean 'will the cases fit the chamber without a lot of force required to close the bolt'. Is that correct? You'll have to try it and see. I usually full length resize cases formed from a different caliber, but after shooting them some they usually will fit the chamber with neck sizing only. Depends on the individual case and the individual rifle.
Thanks Rev
Yes thats what I meant, if I fire form to the chamber will the increase in diameter make it hard to chamber a Round. I was thinking my chamber may be long with a military rifle and my cases would last longer if i dont move the shoulder back and forth with full leingth resizing. My Rifle is a Yugo 24 47.
Yes thats what I meant, if I fire form to the chamber will the increase in diameter make it hard to chamber a Round. I was thinking my chamber may be long with a military rifle and my cases would last longer if i dont move the shoulder back and forth with full leingth resizing. My Rifle is a Yugo 24 47.
Well
Hmm, from the limited amount of replies i can only guess that I am venturing into an unknown part of reloading. I will take it upon myself to learn all aspects of this conversion through trial and error so the next guy that seeks wisdom of this subject will have a source of information. Thanks to all
Hmm, from the limited amount of replies i can only guess that I am venturing into an unknown part of reloading. I will take it upon myself to learn all aspects of this conversion through trial and error so the next guy that seeks wisdom of this subject will have a source of information. Thanks to all
mrawesome22
New member
Once you fire form them, they'll behave just like any other piece of brass.
Neck or FL size is a personal choice.
I FL size everything these days. A FL sized cartridge lasts just as long and is just as accurate as a necked sized cartridge, IF the die is set up correctly.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire S A510e using Tapatalk 2
Neck or FL size is a personal choice.
I FL size everything these days. A FL sized cartridge lasts just as long and is just as accurate as a necked sized cartridge, IF the die is set up correctly.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire S A510e using Tapatalk 2
Thanks Microawesome .22
Im going to make some 8x57 this weekend and full leingth size them. I will cut the leingth with a dremal, then chamer before running them through the sizing die. I will post the results. I want to get that lee trim die midway sells but will just free hand it for now.
Im going to make some 8x57 this weekend and full leingth size them. I will cut the leingth with a dremal, then chamer before running them through the sizing die. I will post the results. I want to get that lee trim die midway sells but will just free hand it for now.
BigPapa4147
New member
Iraqveteran8888 on youtube has a great video on forming 8x57 brass from 30-06. Should answer your questions.
I also reform .30-06 and .270Win into 8X57, as well as .284Win into 7.5 Swiss, and have been known to form .243 into .308. During the runup to the 2008 failed election, brass got scarce, so I had to use what I could scrounge at the range. I used calibers I don't have guns for, so the brass was not wasted.
I do find a bit more lube is needed, as the force needed to reform is greater.
I also use my old single stage press, to keep from stressing my turret press.
I do find a bit more lube is needed, as the force needed to reform is greater.
I also use my old single stage press, to keep from stressing my turret press.
Scharfschuetzer
New member
I form 8 X 57 cases from 30/06 Lake City military cases.
I use a Redding form die made especialy for this process.
I lube the case well and then using a Rock Chucker press, I run the case into the die, cut the protruding excess brass off with a fine tooth hacksaw with the case still in the die (its made to do this), use a fine tooth file to square the neck (again with the case still in the die), remove the case and then bevel the case mouth inside and out. The case is then ready for loading in the normal manner.
I use the cases thus fomed in several military mausers with good success.
I use a Redding form die made especialy for this process.
I lube the case well and then using a Rock Chucker press, I run the case into the die, cut the protruding excess brass off with a fine tooth hacksaw with the case still in the die (its made to do this), use a fine tooth file to square the neck (again with the case still in the die), remove the case and then bevel the case mouth inside and out. The case is then ready for loading in the normal manner.
I use the cases thus fomed in several military mausers with good success.
Scharfschuetzer, Bigdog57
Thanks for the tips, I figured sooner or later someone with caseforming experince would read this post.
I dont have the trim die, but will get it. I will look up Redding.
I have a crimp die in my Lee set, that I probably wont use, I could put the Redding in the place of that and trim the necks off with my dremmel cut off wheel.
Im gonna reload some 8x57 Brass that I have today, and try a few of my free handed 30 06 cases. Thanks for the help.
Thanks for the tips, I figured sooner or later someone with caseforming experince would read this post.
I dont have the trim die, but will get it. I will look up Redding.
I have a crimp die in my Lee set, that I probably wont use, I could put the Redding in the place of that and trim the necks off with my dremmel cut off wheel.
Im gonna reload some 8x57 Brass that I have today, and try a few of my free handed 30 06 cases. Thanks for the help.
A builder, shooter, reloader was having a perceived problem, seems the necks on his bench rest type rifles were too large in diameter after firing, it mattered not that his groups were ‘one hole’, someone convinced him the difference between the neck of the case before firing was too small in diameter at .335 thousandths, after firing the diameter of the neck was .345 thousandths. So, I offered to tighten the necks, after finishing his necks measured .341 thousandths before firing and .345 thousandths after firing, I understand this is some risky stuff when applied to to multiple chambers.
Forming 308 W from 30/06 uses the same technique as going from 30/06 to 8mm57. Again, he has an A2 RCBS press, a cam over press, unfortunately he insist on using Imperial sizing wax and or Dillon in the spray can or spray bottle, forming the 30/06 to 308W was a workout for his press.
Trimming,? I use the hack saw, the man tool for reloaders, when trimming 308 W cases that have been formed from 30/06 it is necessary to trim close to 50 inches of brass, the top of the die is supposed to be harder than a file, after trimming the case above the die with a hack saw, I finish with a file, that does not mean the case former must run the file down to the top of the die, the reloader can choose to trim the cases to length after getting the case down to manageable length. I have a 30/06 forming trim die that needs to go back to RCBS, it is .032 thousandths too short.
Forming die, which one? If I had one forming die it would be the 308 W, with the 308 W forming die a reloader/case former can form 7.7 Japanese cases from 30/06, 8mm57 Mauser and 308 W cases etc. if they can can adjust the die off the shell holder with a hint of accuracy, the 243 W forming die also works for cases with smaller diameter necks, again the former/reloader must be able to be able to do the math as in A – B =C when C is the gap between the bottom of the die and top of the shell holder with the ram up.
One big advantage, all cases are manufactured to a specification, for me that is a handicap, I am not a fire former, I form first, when forming cases like the 8mm57 from 30/06 I adjust the die to form the shoulder to eliminate the difference between the length of the chamber with the length of the case, my press/die/shell holder, my case, my chamber, when forming/sizing I place the shoulder where I want it. That is not possible when the chamber is longer than than the case from the head of the case to it’s shoulder, AND do not believe you are moving the shoulder forward and or backwards, just so you understand what is going on scribe the case body/shoulder juncture, then scribe the shoulder/neck juncture, when forming the 30/06 shoulder does not move, it is erased and become part of the neck, the case body/shoulder juncture does not move (nor it is bumped) it is erased and becomes part of the case body.
Back to the Eddystone with .016 thousandths head space, I off set the length of the chamber with longer cases and forming dies, I use 280 Remington (.051 thousandths shoulder ahead of the 30/06 shoulder) cases with a 30/06 forming die adjusted off the shell holder .016 thousands to form the cases, then adjust the 30/06 full length sizer doe off the shell holder .014 thousandths. When forming cases it does not get better than when using new cases, after that it is once fired cases, after that it is basically going through the motions, but there is always annealing to the rescue, and I make annealing equipment, my own annealing equipment.
F. Guffey
Forming 308 W from 30/06 uses the same technique as going from 30/06 to 8mm57. Again, he has an A2 RCBS press, a cam over press, unfortunately he insist on using Imperial sizing wax and or Dillon in the spray can or spray bottle, forming the 30/06 to 308W was a workout for his press.
Trimming,? I use the hack saw, the man tool for reloaders, when trimming 308 W cases that have been formed from 30/06 it is necessary to trim close to 50 inches of brass, the top of the die is supposed to be harder than a file, after trimming the case above the die with a hack saw, I finish with a file, that does not mean the case former must run the file down to the top of the die, the reloader can choose to trim the cases to length after getting the case down to manageable length. I have a 30/06 forming trim die that needs to go back to RCBS, it is .032 thousandths too short.
Forming die, which one? If I had one forming die it would be the 308 W, with the 308 W forming die a reloader/case former can form 7.7 Japanese cases from 30/06, 8mm57 Mauser and 308 W cases etc. if they can can adjust the die off the shell holder with a hint of accuracy, the 243 W forming die also works for cases with smaller diameter necks, again the former/reloader must be able to be able to do the math as in A – B =C when C is the gap between the bottom of the die and top of the shell holder with the ram up.
One big advantage, all cases are manufactured to a specification, for me that is a handicap, I am not a fire former, I form first, when forming cases like the 8mm57 from 30/06 I adjust the die to form the shoulder to eliminate the difference between the length of the chamber with the length of the case, my press/die/shell holder, my case, my chamber, when forming/sizing I place the shoulder where I want it. That is not possible when the chamber is longer than than the case from the head of the case to it’s shoulder, AND do not believe you are moving the shoulder forward and or backwards, just so you understand what is going on scribe the case body/shoulder juncture, then scribe the shoulder/neck juncture, when forming the 30/06 shoulder does not move, it is erased and become part of the neck, the case body/shoulder juncture does not move (nor it is bumped) it is erased and becomes part of the case body.
Back to the Eddystone with .016 thousandths head space, I off set the length of the chamber with longer cases and forming dies, I use 280 Remington (.051 thousandths shoulder ahead of the 30/06 shoulder) cases with a 30/06 forming die adjusted off the shell holder .016 thousands to form the cases, then adjust the 30/06 full length sizer doe off the shell holder .014 thousandths. When forming cases it does not get better than when using new cases, after that it is once fired cases, after that it is basically going through the motions, but there is always annealing to the rescue, and I make annealing equipment, my own annealing equipment.
F. Guffey
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I load for and shoot a few Ackley Improved calibers and making the proper case is obviously part and parcel of wildcatting. Annealing cases is a big part of forming cases for me. I always anneal used cases first thing, before any other step.
TX Hunter, I think you are right. Along with many reloading skills, case forming seems to be a dying art. The early to mid 20th century was a real golden era of handloading with smokeless powder. After the world wars many 'foreign' rifles were brought back by returning Doughboys and GIs and in many instances cases had to be formed from what brass was available.
'Experimentation' seems to be a dirty word in today's handloading world. In the 'old days' guys made do with what they had or could find. Without the experiments of guys like Townsend Whelen, Elmer Keith, P.O. Ackley, Lysle Kilbourn and the various Lyman family members many cartridges that are very popular today wouldn't exist.
One of the cool things about handloading, like many hobbies, is that one can plumb the depths to what ever extent one wishes.
I'm reminded of this quote by Jack O'Connor:
'Handloading can be dangerous. Careless people do blow up rifles and revolvers and injure themselves. Anyone taking up loading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car, goes to a cocktail party, eats in a restaurant, or gets married.'
TX Hunter, I think you are right. Along with many reloading skills, case forming seems to be a dying art. The early to mid 20th century was a real golden era of handloading with smokeless powder. After the world wars many 'foreign' rifles were brought back by returning Doughboys and GIs and in many instances cases had to be formed from what brass was available.
'Experimentation' seems to be a dirty word in today's handloading world. In the 'old days' guys made do with what they had or could find. Without the experiments of guys like Townsend Whelen, Elmer Keith, P.O. Ackley, Lysle Kilbourn and the various Lyman family members many cartridges that are very popular today wouldn't exist.
One of the cool things about handloading, like many hobbies, is that one can plumb the depths to what ever extent one wishes.
I'm reminded of this quote by Jack O'Connor:
'Handloading can be dangerous. Careless people do blow up rifles and revolvers and injure themselves. Anyone taking up loading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car, goes to a cocktail party, eats in a restaurant, or gets married.'
FGuffey, Rev Geo
Well we didnt go to church this morning, got a kid sick, so we stayed home with him.
I made some 8 MM I used some 8mm Cases, and converted about ten 30 06 cases. They turned out pretty good.
It was not near as hard to expand the necks as I thought, I didnt have the trimming die, so I free handed with a Dremel, You must use safety glasses for this, as it throws alot of schrapnel.
I have turned this house over looking for my 8mm Pilot for my trimmer, I used a 30 calliber pilot, it was close I measuered everything came out even.
I used my callipers and measured a once fired 8mm case, that was within specs, and trimmed all my other brass to that leingth, and chamfered.
I loaded up 21 rounds using 44.2 grains of IMR 4895 and loaded Speer hot core 150 Grain. (.323) 44.0 was the starting load in my manual, I ended up getting 44.2 but thats not a big difference. I will try this box for accuracy and to inspect the brass and see how the necks hold up.
I will get the trim die, a New 8mm Pilot for my lyman trimmer, and a one some fine tooth blades for my hacksaw.
I did notice that my charge of powder filled the case to the shoulder, It looks like 4 more grains would almost be a compressed load. You can shake them and hear the powder, but it looked like a pretty full case with 44.2 grains.
I wanted to start light, maby stay light. a 44.0 charge or 4895 is supposed to produce a muzzle velocity of 2248. Im using the Complete Reloading Manual for the 8mm Mauser. Published by Loadbooks USA. This load is on Page 16. Thanks for the help, I will let you know how they fire.
I do plan to get the Redding Trim Die, and some fine tooth blades for my hacksaw.
Well we didnt go to church this morning, got a kid sick, so we stayed home with him.
I made some 8 MM I used some 8mm Cases, and converted about ten 30 06 cases. They turned out pretty good.
It was not near as hard to expand the necks as I thought, I didnt have the trimming die, so I free handed with a Dremel, You must use safety glasses for this, as it throws alot of schrapnel.
I have turned this house over looking for my 8mm Pilot for my trimmer, I used a 30 calliber pilot, it was close I measuered everything came out even.
I used my callipers and measured a once fired 8mm case, that was within specs, and trimmed all my other brass to that leingth, and chamfered.
I loaded up 21 rounds using 44.2 grains of IMR 4895 and loaded Speer hot core 150 Grain. (.323) 44.0 was the starting load in my manual, I ended up getting 44.2 but thats not a big difference. I will try this box for accuracy and to inspect the brass and see how the necks hold up.
I will get the trim die, a New 8mm Pilot for my lyman trimmer, and a one some fine tooth blades for my hacksaw.
I did notice that my charge of powder filled the case to the shoulder, It looks like 4 more grains would almost be a compressed load. You can shake them and hear the powder, but it looked like a pretty full case with 44.2 grains.
I wanted to start light, maby stay light. a 44.0 charge or 4895 is supposed to produce a muzzle velocity of 2248. Im using the Complete Reloading Manual for the 8mm Mauser. Published by Loadbooks USA. This load is on Page 16. Thanks for the help, I will let you know how they fire.
I do plan to get the Redding Trim Die, and some fine tooth blades for my hacksaw.
Sucess
Well I tried a few of my loads for function, case stress, and accuracy.
The Recoil was not bad, muzzle blast sounded right, cases looked great, no sighns of stress.
And although not a true accuracy test, with elbows supporting the rifle on a picknick table shooting at a paper plate at 50 yards a four shot group of 1.511 with two rounds touching I used a digital caliper and measured from center hole to center hole of the two farthest apart shots with the other two in the middle of the group.
I am very well pleased, thanks to all for the help.
The Rifle is a Yugo 20 47 with a tall front sight from brownells, rear sight on 600 because I have not trimmed the sight yet.
The load was 44.2 grains of IMR 4895 with a Speer Hot Core 150 Grain Soft point. I think it shot well out of this Iron Sighted Beauty.
Well I tried a few of my loads for function, case stress, and accuracy.
The Recoil was not bad, muzzle blast sounded right, cases looked great, no sighns of stress.
And although not a true accuracy test, with elbows supporting the rifle on a picknick table shooting at a paper plate at 50 yards a four shot group of 1.511 with two rounds touching I used a digital caliper and measured from center hole to center hole of the two farthest apart shots with the other two in the middle of the group.
I am very well pleased, thanks to all for the help.
The Rifle is a Yugo 20 47 with a tall front sight from brownells, rear sight on 600 because I have not trimmed the sight yet.
The load was 44.2 grains of IMR 4895 with a Speer Hot Core 150 Grain Soft point. I think it shot well out of this Iron Sighted Beauty.
Scharfschuetzer
New member
Great results TX!
It should get even better (and easier) with that purpose made trim die.
Those Yugos can sure be good shooters.
It should get even better (and easier) with that purpose made trim die.
Those Yugos can sure be good shooters.
Thanks Scarfschuetzer
Yes sir, i was happy with the Results, the impacts were center of plate and functioned well in the action. 8 mm mauser is not as easy to get here as other cartridges its nice to be able to enjoy the rifle now. I bet the load i made would work well for hunting as well.
Yes sir, i was happy with the Results, the impacts were center of plate and functioned well in the action. 8 mm mauser is not as easy to get here as other cartridges its nice to be able to enjoy the rifle now. I bet the load i made would work well for hunting as well.
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Well Im about to be all set
I checked with Midway and found the Redding die, but also found an RCBS trim and form die, it took me a while to decide between the two but ended up buying the RCBS, it forms the case, and you can also trim the leingth.
I should be able to make some really nice cases, also picked up a few other items I needed. Like a Primer Pocket reamer, and a new chamfer tool, because the one I have is borrowed, so I wish to return it. also went ahead and ordered an 8MM Pilot for my Lyman trimmer. This is alot of fun
I checked with Midway and found the Redding die, but also found an RCBS trim and form die, it took me a while to decide between the two but ended up buying the RCBS, it forms the case, and you can also trim the leingth.
I should be able to make some really nice cases, also picked up a few other items I needed. Like a Primer Pocket reamer, and a new chamfer tool, because the one I have is borrowed, so I wish to return it. also went ahead and ordered an 8MM Pilot for my Lyman trimmer. This is alot of fun
wileybelch
New member
From my notes:
The .30-06 to 8mm Mauser case conversion has some side effects. I started by using LC military cases...did all the usual things...fired a box of 20 rounds using 49gr IMR4064 with the Sierra 175gr ProHunter...all went well EXCEPT...almost every case had a short vertical split in the neck where the old .30-06 neck/should joint was. I am now repeating the whole process with commercial brass (Win and R-P) to see if the vertical split problem recurs.
Off to the side...making .308 from .30-06 brass represents a strategy issue. It is physically hard because you are both pushing the shoulder back AND neck sizing at the same time. Not good! Always try to push the should back in a separate first step (usually using a separate/different die). Then trim the excess length. Finally size the neck...much less friction/resistance.
Note...I use Imperial sizing wax VERY THINLY applied with fingers.
More notes later...I have to go spray some pastures....
The .30-06 to 8mm Mauser case conversion has some side effects. I started by using LC military cases...did all the usual things...fired a box of 20 rounds using 49gr IMR4064 with the Sierra 175gr ProHunter...all went well EXCEPT...almost every case had a short vertical split in the neck where the old .30-06 neck/should joint was. I am now repeating the whole process with commercial brass (Win and R-P) to see if the vertical split problem recurs.
Off to the side...making .308 from .30-06 brass represents a strategy issue. It is physically hard because you are both pushing the shoulder back AND neck sizing at the same time. Not good! Always try to push the should back in a separate first step (usually using a separate/different die). Then trim the excess length. Finally size the neck...much less friction/resistance.
Note...I use Imperial sizing wax VERY THINLY applied with fingers.
More notes later...I have to go spray some pastures....