Questions about custom revolver building

[Elerius]

Never posted in this section, but I'm realizing there are big gaps in my knowledge when I've been considering a custom revolver and I was hoping some of you can shed light on what might be noobish questions before I start trying to contact companies. I'm not ready to build but I need to know if this is totally feasible, or a waste of time.

I like the 327 Federal Magnum cartridge for potential carry. My grand vision is a scandium 7 shot K frame with boot grips and a 3" barrel and fiber optic sights, or in an L frame housing an 8 shot cylinder. 8 rounds of near 357 power in a lightweight L frame is quite appealing, but the information on feasibility is giving me a headache.

Figuring there must be companies that could machine a cylinder and barrel in .32 I am finding "custom" doesn't seem to mean "from scratch." According to their order forms, none of these places sound like they could fabricate a barrel or cylinder in any way. The only exception being Cylinder & Slide, which offers to install a blank bull barrel. I'm not even sure this means what I think it means. They say nothing about actually manufacturing a cylinder and it seems odd that they're capable of all these services but not making parts that could be made with a CNC machine? I can only presume it's more complicated, so my questions:

Does any company out there have the capability to just make me a 327 7 or 8-shot cylinder and barrel that can be fitted to a K or L frame? Are all these menus just the basics, or the maximum service abilities?

If not, I could use another barrel from a 32 Long or H&R and have it fitted to any K frame without flame cutting issues or of the like?

Ruger makes a blue 7 shot 327 and a stainless 8 shot cylinders. Can these be fitted into a Smith, or is that completely incompatible?

Another thought was a scandium frame, and the only K frame I know exists is the 315NG. Could this frame hypothetically be fitted to a K32 barrel to make a lightweight version, without cracking or the loads being damaging to scandium?

Bowen Classic Arms talks about boring a M617 into 327 Fed. Is this then an unusual tech level for a non-gun company?

Smith and Wesson's Performance Center is a good example. They only have a short list of services but sometimes I hear about them doing other weird Barrel swaps and stuff like that. What is the highest level of detail in customisation that Smith & Wesson is actually willing to do for somebody? I don't suppose they would just build the gun I'm asking for?

What exactly is the blank bull barrel service C&S mentions?

Any insight would be very helpful. I don't know what my expectations should even be aimed at with this gun

 

[Bill DeShivs]

It's obvious you have no knowledge of how guns are manufactured.
The simple answer is- find a stock gun that meets your needs, or prepare to spend thousands of dollars to get what you really want from a custom gunsmith. No factory is going to stop their production line and tool up to build you a special gun. Barrel lengths can be changed, but building an entire custom one-off gun would be prohibitively expensive.

 

[Elerius]

As stated, no I have no idea what the actual construction entails, hence the questions. I don't expect a factory to make me a personal gun, I'm talking specifically about custom shops, of which I presume the Performance Center is some kind of branch but they don't exactly explain it on the website either. They do custom work, so does that mean they aren't part of normal assembly? What prevents a machinist from recreating a cylinder with .32 bore? I don't know any of these things and it's not such an easily searchable topic.

This would be a special project, costing several thousand I would expect purely to create something interesting. I am a lot more interested in possibility than practicality. The gunsmith I mentioned has made several 327 magnums out of the 617 and 32-20, so the basics can clearly be done. An 8 round scandium L-frame in 327 mag would be super cool and I just want to understand why exactly it would be such a challenge to produce, or why there only appears to be one gunsmith capable

 

[mete]

First the "scandium alloy" is actually aluminum alloy with about 1 % scandium ! scandium is a rare earth metal .Very expensive .
Making an 8 shot cylinder , and an accurate one is not an easy job
requiring CNC machines to do it. So a lot of things CAN be done but the time and cost may make it not practical .

 

[1stmar]

No one is going to build a custom frame. You will have to buy the gun that most closely fits your desire and then send it to aomeone like hamilton bowen and have it customized to what you want. gou need to discuss your projext first to make sure he can so what you are looking for. A blank is used to make a barrel, custom barrela, trigger jobs are the norm along with improved aights and grips. Sometimes a new cylinder can be fabricated. A change in caliber is also possible within the limits of the frame amd ability to modify/fabricate a cylinder.

 

[4V50 Gary]

You mentioned L-frame. So buy one. Next take it to a gunsmith with a milling machine who can fabricate a new cylinder for you with new notches, forward leading edges for those notches and the star extractor to match. Then he'll have to make a hand to fit it. On top of that, he'll have to sleeve the barrel for the new caliber too.

 

[Jim Watson]

If 4V50 Gary knows who will make a one-off cylinder, he is way ahead of me.

There was an outfit in Florida making cylinder blanks (also BHP frames) but they did not last.

A Ruger cylinder could not be made to fit a Smith.

Hamilton Bowen quit working on Smiths in 2016.

The Smith & Wesson Performance Center is not a custom gunsmithing shop. It has its own lineup of models with some "features" not found in the regular catalog and they won't deviate much, or do much to your gun.

One might think of sleeving a 686+ .357 cylinder to .327 with extra high strength material. Finding somebody willing to take the plunge would be the problem.

It is what I call a Type 3 project, physically possible but finding somebody willing to drop what he is doing and take on an unusual job, plus the liability of Magnum caliber conversion, will be the trick.

I have two solutions that you may not find satisfactory.
1. Learn to love a Ruger. Mr Bowen WILL fix one up very nice and you can have a slick GP100 7x.327.

2. Go German. Janz will make you a revolver for almost any caliber. Kind of like a Korth, only nicer. They show a very nice looking .357, only $13,499.00. I am sure they would discuss one like it in .327 with an extra shot or two. And for a reasonable fee, they will make it caliber convertible to whatever else will fit on the frame.

https://janzrevolver.com/

 

[Elerius]

Korth is the final option, but if that ends up being the case, I have a lot of saving to do. Loving Ruger might have to be the most realistic option.

I figured that making the barrel would be more difficult than a cylinder, but it sounds like that's not so. Ruger cylinders cannot be fitted, but let's assume for a second I have a Smith cylinder that fits a K frame. I assume regular aluminum frames wouldn't stand up to .327 and would need to be scandium alloy and the the only K frame I know of is the 315 in this material.

Is there any particular reason a K32 masterpiece barrel can't be fitted to the 315 frame? I know they have some kind of barrel sleeving setup, but don't know if this prevents an all steel barrel from being connected without cracks or some other kind of problem.

If this is doable, I just need to solve the cylinder problem and then the rest is normal custom work. Otherwise the idea will likely be Scrapped. Is the issue with timing of the chambers?

You mentioned L-frame. So buy one. Next take it to a gunsmith with a milling machine who can fabricate a new cylinder for you with new notches, forward leading edges for those notches and the star extractor to match. Then he'll have to make a hand to fit it. On top of that, he'll have to sleeve the barrel for the new caliber too.

Do you know of any such gunsmith? Otherwise it's just Korth or Ruger. This was an idea I've had for a while to sort of crown my collection. I'll give up if it's too technically challenging but also don't want to give up early. I appreciate the inputs, I just like to think outside the box.

 

[Jim Watson]

Barrels are not a problem.
16-4 .32 H&Rs have been rechambered .327; .32 S&W Long have been rechambered .32 H&R and a late one would surely handle .327.
Failing that, there is no technical limitation; buy a blank from Douglas and it is just routine GOOD gunsmith lathe work to turn it to profile and thread it for the action, you are not asking somebody to rifle a barrel to some odd caliber.

The cylinder is the problem. Good luck.

I did not say anything about Korth except that Janz is "nicer" meaning well made with a lot more options. Korth does not have the wide variety of options that Janz does. They will make a .32 S&W Long for ISU target shooting. Never saw anything about them making a 7 shooter; in fact they used to build only 5 shot revolvers.
The problem with Janz revolvers is that they are L to N to X frame size for target and hunting, they don't seem to do small light guns for concealed carry. Not much demand in Europe.

Now I am not deep into the ultracustom revolver business, and there might be a cylinder maker out there, but I am thinking you have two feasible options.
Ruger GP100 7x327 with all the improvements Bowen or other Ruger plumber can devise. Still going to be a rather big heavy gun.
S&W M315 with M16-4 barrel and (rechambered) cylinder. Get by with six shots. Not as expensive as a Korth or Janz, but still a lot more than any stock model; say Python prices.

 

[Elerius]

Thanks, that is concise info. There are only a handful factors, seems like one of the key ones is missing no matter which way I arrange it. I was big on 7-8 shots to maximize the value of carrying a 327. I'm not sure I'd like to sacrifice a 315 and 16 to still get 6 shots in the end after thousands of dollars. Getting something I'd feel is reasonably practical to carry and beautiful is a must.

If I accepted a limitation of 6 shots, a J frame would put me around 25-ish ounces without worrying about material. About what a 632 Pro weighs, but I'm not crazy about porting.

A final question then, would a Model 30 J frame cylinder be able to bore out to 327 without danger, or issues finding a gunsmith or is that still difficult? The 632 is blackened stainless, I presume this cylinder already cut for 327 would fit a M30 without size issues or exploding? Basing this hypothesis on the 632 already existing but it's not made of carbon steel. A gunsmith that could just bore the M30 cylinder would be the simplest path, and would be a "beautiful" version of the 632 and I could get behind that, and be happy to carry it

 

[Jim Watson]

.327 at 45000 psi is the hottest round offered in mid-size revolvers.
I would see what a good gunsmith had to say about rechambering anything smaller than a 16-4.

 

[dakota.potts]

Barrels can be custom made from rifled blanks. A bull barrel is a full diameter round barrel without any cuts made and will typically need machining for any lugs, sights, etc. Hamilton Bowen's book is a great read for this kind of thing and is written at a level where one does not have to know many of the technical details to understand and appreciate what is being conveyed.

Cylinders can be made also but it's typically more involved. Mr. Bowen talks about customers providing blank cylinders which are designed to be bored out for different cartridges.

I believe I've seen for sale somewhere a custom revolver with one cylinder in .327 magnum and another in .32-20 - it might have been on the Bowen website.

Regardless, expect to pay very high fees for all of the work that must be done.

 

[4V50 Gary]

Jim - I do have one classmate who has the skill to make a cylinder. He was a machinist for 17 years including making parts for NASA. Now, whether the customer has the $$$ for him to dedicate his time for such a project is another matter.

 

[Jim Watson]

Customer says "This would be a special project, costing several thousand..."

I see the job as
Procure Nightguard revolver
Make, fit, and time 7x.327 cylinder, maybe 8x.327 for L frame version.
Procure .32 barrel or profile from blank.
Install barrel without cracking "scandium" receiver.
Finish.

 

[Elerius]

I figure roughly 1500 for the silver version 386, Cylinder & Slide says about 500 for the blank barrel to be installed and maybe another 1000-1500 for other bells and whistles and finishing. I guess I could stand to skip a couple of the more expensive pistols on my list to even out the price on the cylinder if the only other factor is finding someone who can make one.

I've always been big on outer space, and it disappoints me that I've waited my whole life for spaceships and moon bases that are well within our technological reach, they just cost so much that nobody does it, until recently with things like SpaceX. I didn't realize it was so hard to have a cylinder made, and once again money is a factor but Gary if you're friend could make one, a x8 to fit a 386 for a fee that wouldn't be way out of control then I'd be pretty interested. Nobody else seems to want to make a gun like this and I think it'd be an exceptional carry piece, but perhaps I'm the only one. It would be unique and practical, that's enough for me to invest some effort, you know?

 

[Elerius]

How serious is the likelihood of cracking the frame with a new barrel?

 

[T. O'Heir]

"...feasibility is giving me a headache..." Anything is possible with enough time and money. Usually a great deal of both.
"...machine a cylinder and barrel..." Machine shop costs run well over $100 per hour, plus design and set up/programming(CNC) time. And you'd have to provide the machinists drawings. You'd end up spending thousands when a Ruger GP100 MSRP is $899.
I'd rethink the .327 Federal too. Midway lists 5 loads. Three of which are Federal and are currently on No Backorder. And you won't likely find it in small places.

 

[Jim Watson]

How serious is the likelihood of cracking the frame with a new barrel?

There is certainly more of a risk with a nonferrous receiver than an all steel gun.
So I was looking around on the S&W board and one poster said, you have probably read about every cracked Smith right here.
I would sure let my expert genius gunsmith address that part of the project.

 

[Don P]

Re-inventing the round wheel to make it square and in the end getting a somewhat round wheel that has been "Frankensteined" . At times I have difficulty trying to reason why folks want to do certain things when it come to firearms and in the end what they are trying to accomplish.

 

[weaselfire]

This would be a special project, costing several thousand...

Might want consider that figure again. The "several thousand" possibly wouldn't get much more than a custom configured cylinder.

It's not that people can't do this. It's that people don't need to do this. The smith/machinist/engineer that can do this would be booked years out and can pull in more money in a week doing aerospace work than a year of gunsmith custom work.

Jeff

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