Question for the smithies

[stagpanther]

I bought a weatherby vanguard first light in 300 weatherby magnum when it came out (it's basically a howa 1500) and have never been satisfied with the way it shot. I've shot a lot of weatherbys in that caliber so I'm no stranger to it. I love weatherbys--among my favorite rifles. But this one is one I think is really a dud. It has a 26" fluted barrel in their #2 sporter profile. Long story short, I've never seen a powerful magnum .308 barrel tapered down that much; I'm under the impression I'm shooting a wet noodle that whips too much.

So I decided to yank the barrel and put a new one on. I never succeeded in getting it off, I actually got to the point where clamps started to deform without the barrel budging. I've been told on many times it's a piece of cake--when I called legacy intl. they told me that's not true.

Sooo--here comes the actual question.

The first light (and many vanguards) AFAIK are often assembled with cerakoted parts. My understanding is Cerakote is a relatively thick coating compared to other processes of finishing. Being a ceramic type coating--I believe it is more or less impervious to removal solvents. If cerakote is used on the barrel shank and receiver threads--can it form a ceramic bond that approaches the strength of steel itself?

 

[Bill DeShivs]

I know nothing about Weatherby rifles, but any of the paint finishes should be applied after the gun is assembled, and threads should not be painted on individual parts that may be painted.
You may need heat to break the barrel loose. It may be Loctited.

 

[std7mag]

You may want to check the seam where the barrel & action meet.
On another forum someone was attempting a barrel swap on their Vanguard & found a small spot weld.
Supposedly it was a factory barrel they were attempting to remove.

 

[natman]

Sometime Howa barrels can be extremely difficult to remove. I've seen videos of smiths chucking the barreled action into a lathe to relieve the barrel shoulder in order to get the old barrel off. Google "Howa barrel removal".

I suspect that you have one of the difficult ones and while the Cerakote may be contributing it's not likely to be the main issue.

 

[stagpanther]

I've had my action wrench up to several hundred ft lbs and the steel on the wrench started to deform while the barrel wouldn't budge. I've been told by a smith that works on Howas that Howa possibly uses something along the lines of a "counter thread lock" to lock the barrel to the receiver. I may not have fully understood what he meant; I took it to mean that there is a counter thread twist to lock the barrel to the action for proper headspace setting. He also told me that occasionally they can be "hopeless" to remove without destroying the barrel and he uses a multi-ton shear to do that. I've already pretty much destroyed the barrel.

 

[Scorch]

I've removed dozens of Howa barrels, they are all LocTited in place. Put the heat to it and it will come loose. But yes, they are really on there.

As far as CeraKote going on thicker, that is not my experience. It only adds about a thousandth dimensionally to OD of a barrel, so it's about a half thousandth thick when done right. DuraCoat is the one I have seen that is thick on the parts. But CeraKote is slick and does not help us poor old smiths get a grip on it.

 

[stagpanther]

Put the heat to it and it will come loose.

Torched it many times--I don't think it's a locktite issue.

 

[4V50 Gary]

I'll ask a former Williams Gunsite smith.

 

[Nathan]

I think the way they get these is cutting parallel and near the shoulder.

 

[4V50 Gary]

More experienced gunsmith advised me that they're super hard to remove. If the barrel isn't going to be reused, he said use a cut-off tool near the receiver. Yes, that's messed up.

I hope what Scorch suggested (heat to soften the loc-tite) works.

 

[Jim Watson]

Trivia Alert

There was a shop in Atlanta that made a few one-piece rifles, sort of like the old Savage Sporter Model 23 but in full power calibers. They said that if you managed to shoot out the barrel, they would cut it off, thread the receiver section, and screw in a regular barrel.

 

[stagpanther]

I'll ask a former Williams Gunsite smith.

I know that Williams Gunsite is one of Weatherby's top authorized service centers--it would be interesting to hear what your friend says. My vanguard was one of the early 'first light" in 300 wby magnum--to this day I can't figure out why they used a pencil-thin light sporter barrel. Now that Weatherby has a large factory in Wyoming I'm wondering if the vanguard action and barrel are still "subbed" to Howa?

 

[4V50 Gary]

Stagpanther - he said cut it if the BBL isn't needed.

I got another heat it from another 'smith.

 

[stagpanther]

Stagpanther - he said cut it if the BBL isn't needed.

I got another heat it from another 'smith.

Thanks for that. I torched the barrel's shoulder so hot it turned the cerakote on the receiver dark brown--and in some places the steel showed a whiteish cast; I wonder if I changed the steel's temper in the process. The barrel still won't budge--even after I cut a couple of relief notches on the shoulder near the receiver's face. I'm going to remove the nice trigger (put it on another howa I have) and mount the carcass on my wall of shame.

 

[4V50 Gary]

You don't want to reach critical. Just enough to loosen the loctite.