Question for Firearms Instructors

Topcop15

New member
I recently completed the NRA Law Enforcement Instructor School for Pistol/Shotgun. We have a relatively small department, 15 total. We have our own outdoor range- 50 yard with six shooting lanes. Any one have any good drill and qualification courses that I could use. Any information would be appreciated
 

steve154

New member
TopCop,

We have tons of outdoor courses. Most of them are one shooter at a time utilizing an entire range. Lots of movement from cover to cover, tactical reloads, exiting car with shotgun and shooting and transition to pistol etc...I don't know how much time you have to qualify everyone, but we do 70 people over 4 days without any time problems. I will make copies of some tonight when I go to work and will mail them to you. Send me your address in a PM.

Steve
 

Steve in PA

New member
I did the patrol rifle course a dew years ago. My handgun/shotgun was done through PSP.

This isn't meant to be rude, but as an instructor.......make up your own qual course. Thats why your an "instructor". Sorry, its a little pet peave of mine.

The shotgun qual course I use consists of 10-rounds and goes something like this.

We start at the 75yd, since we only carry slugs (no buckshot) in our shotguns.

75yd: 1-round standing, 1-round kneeling

50yd: 2-rounds standing, 1-round kneeling

25yd: 4-rounds standing (facing target, facing 90' to right, turn face, target and shoot, facing 90' to left, turn, face target and shoot, facing 180' away from target, turn, face target and shoot) These are done from the "safety circle" taught during the patrol rifle course.

15yd: 1-round standing, transition to sidearm
 

k9lwt

New member
Steve in PA,

No prone shooting with the shotgun-why? Also, why are you using a slug to engage at 75yds-I know they are accurate up to 150, but don't you have patrol rifles?
 

KC135

New member
Train first

:) Remember...training must come before demonstration of results.

How you set up your training and qualification, will depend a lot on your faculity.

No need to reinvent the wheel. I use lots of stuff from many sources. One with lots of good info is mlefiaa.org.


Excellent manual, with lots of good stuff.

Good luck.
 

Steve in PA

New member
We carry both rifles and shotgun in our vehicles.

If someone can't hit a target with a slug from 75yds, they have a problem. (And I have a couple of them that need to try and re-qual in the fall)

I would normally rifle qual my guys from 150yds, however the ranges we have been using only lend themselves to 100yds.

And what advantage is is that we loose? We use slugs because I'd rather be liable for 1 round (slug) instead of 9 (buck shot). I can do more with a slug than you can with buck shot.
 

Dog Confetti

New member
Take a look at the MEUSOC qual course...it's no joke if you're doing it for time, and even if you're not it's a decent course.

Phase 1: single target
25m: pair standing, pair kneeling body - 4 sec
15m: pair standing, pair kneeling body - 4 sec
10m: pair to body, speed load, pair to body - 4 sec
10m to 3 m: shooting on the move, pair to body, speed load, pair to body - 4 sec
10m to 3m: shooting on the move, failure drill - 3 sec
7m: pair to body, strong hand unsupported - 2 sec
7m: pair to body, strong hand unsupported - 2 sec
7m: pair to body, speed reload, single to brain - 3 sec


Phase 2: 2-targets
15m: pair to body, speed reload, pair to other body - 4 sec
10m to 3m: shooting on the move, pair to one body, speed reload, pair to other body - 4 sec
10m to 3m: shooting on the move, box drill - 6 sec
7m to 3m: shooting on the move, pair to both bodies, speed reload, pair to both bodies - 8 sec
7m: single shot to each brain - 2 sec



You want a real kick in the ass try the carbine qual...
 

fed168

New member
Check with your state's training and standards for law enforcement. You may need to okay a qual course through them before operating it.
 

Jeff22

New member
Courses of Fire

The International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors publishes a couple of good course books.www.ialefi.org.

As does the Massachusetts Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors and Armorer's Association. Check them out at www.mlefiaa.org.

And your state commission that oversees police officer training may have requirements as well.

In the past I got a whole course book from the instructor at the local office of the FBI. I don't know if they still do that, but you might check with them, as well as the Marshals Service and the USSS and the ATF and DEA.

I have been to nearly a dozen firearms instructor courses for revolver and shotgun and auto pistol and rifle and SMG in the last 25 years, and NONE of them addressed course design AT ALL in the cirriculum. That has always been a source of frustration to me, since many new instructors don't exactly know where to look for courses of fire. Now that we have the web, it's a little bit easier to find this stuff . . .

And check out the IPSC and IDPA websites because they usually have links to courses of fire right on the website. You'll have to do a little searching to find courses of fire suited to your particular circumstances.
 

Jeff22

New member
Pdt Qc

check out www.personaldefensetraining.com. Scroll down the tool bar on the left side to the box at the bottom labeled "Drills & Targets". Click on that and there are links to a couple of interesting courses, including a course that Personal Defense Training uses as a skills evaluation. Looks like a pretty good course of fire, although I have not had a chance to shoot it yet. I first became aware of this from a post that David Blinder of PDT made on Lightfighter Tactical Forums.
 

gnappi

New member
Drills

If you took the NRA course, what you learned is OK for a qualification course, but it really sucks for real life training drills. If you're looking at qual courses,
you already have lots of notes from your course. OTOH, if you're looking at training beyond qualification courses...

Every instructor has ideas, mine are... unconventional, and generally apply to LEO and civilian use, with the exception of car stops, and other unique LEO situations.

First off, I "HATE" using timed drills. They do nothing other than to tell you if you can get x shots off in :xx seconds. I'll guarantee you that whatever time you pick, there are people out there that will kill you dead in less time. The
"Groove" effect of timed training could be deadly. Here's a suggestion. Use the timer to group the folks in your organization by skill levels, and lean on the training to improve reaction time and accuracy. Set standards high but there should be no pass fail criteria.

Creative drills are easy to construct, but should be based in part on the ability of your officers.

Here's one.

Start an officer walking toward the "subject" and on a whistle, or timer beep have him / her draw and fire till they think the target would be neutralized. By that I mean when they think they have an X or 10 and or a head shot they stop.

This does several things... it trains them to draw as a surprise move, AND gives them confidence that they hit the target.

Here's another.

A target on a moving cable setup in an interrogation situation.... when the Instructor sets the target moving TOWARD the officer he draws and shoots.

Or this...

Sit an officer down in a chair, with cardboard on his left or right to simulate a driver or passenger in a squad car... on a whistle, or beep, the officer draws, and fires at the perp.

Also...

Setup a cardboard "CAR" as if an officer were approaching from the "Driver side". Remember the "car" should be situated so that shots fired go down range into a berm, or dirt AWAY from the shoooter. On a whistle or beep have the officer draw on the "perp" in the car.

Finally...

Mag replacement drills are REALLY important. Load Officers mags with anywhere from one to max capacity, and stow them in their mag holders. Train them to REACT to the slide locking back, and getting the weapon back into service without fumbling. With 50 rounds you can get a LOT of training done.

I look at real life shootings and can make up realistic scenarios just by watching them.

Regards,

Gary
 
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Jeff22

New member
"Regardless of the Weapon, or the particular course of fire, the wider variety of drills that you do, the more refined you will be as a shooter and tactician."
-- James Yeager, Tactical Response, Inc; 29 Nov 2003
 

BerettaCougar

New member
I'm not a firearms instructor.

But I think a nice course would be for the cop to have to pull his/her backup weapon.

I'm close friends with several LEO's for several different local PD's and SO's the local PD cannot pack a backup weapon, but SO can, they usaully pack their backup on their ankle or front pocket.

None of them had to draw their backup weapon durring training, but they practice on their own, I think this is important. If the primary jams, or if the cop looses grip of the gun (like if someone grabs it or if the cop and the BG fight and the BG over powers the cop for his/her weapon)
 

Jeff22

New member
30 round practice drill (designed by Ken Hackathorn)

Ken Hackathorn 30 round self defense practice drill (using one IDPA target):

(these time limits are TIGHT! Feel free to adjust them as necessary)

1. From 5 yards, allowing 1 ½ seconds, beginning at "low ready," one shot to head.
Repeat 3 times.

2. From 5 yards, allowing 2 seconds, beginning with gun holstered, one shot to head.
Repeat 3 times.

3. From 5 yards, allowing 2 seconds, beginning at "low ready," strong hand only, two shots to body.
Repeat 2 times.

4. From 7 yards, allowing 2 seconds, facing 90° to left of target, gun holstered, two shots to body.
One time only.

5. From 7 yards, allowing 2 seconds, facing 90° to right of target, gun holstered, two shots to body.
One time only.

6. From 7 yards, allowing 2 seconds, facing target, gun holstered, two shots to body.
One time only.

7. From 7 yards, allowing 4 seconds, while backing to 10-12 yards, three shots to body.
Repeat 2 times.

8. From 10 yards, allowing 3 seconds, beginning with gun on target and round in chamber, change magazine and fire one shot to body.
Repeat 2 times.

9. From 10 yards, allowing 3 seconds, beginning with gun on target and slide locked back, change magazine and fire one shot to body.
One time only.

10. From 15 yards, allowing 2 ½ seconds, draw and fire one shot to body.
Repeat 5 times.
 

RochPersDef

New member
The Hackethorn one is good. What I do is take a qual drill from, say, IDPA, and practice it until I can hit high marks or perfect with it and then I look at, maybe, the Farnam Drill (another great one to use) and I will work that until I am as good as I think I will be. I rotate through three or four a year and then go back. I get great practice, varied techniques, and when I go back to one drill or the other, I usally will get better at that one too.

You could work this into the requal practice or familiarization for them, then do their standard qual. I'll bet the scores inch up bit by bit
 

Jeff22

New member
100 round practice drill from Clint Smith

100 round practice drill
Based on a practice drill described by
CLINT SMITH of Thunder Ranch
In American Handgunner Magazine
January/February 2006
Pages 32 & 88

Stage One/5 or 7 yards: Warm up drills/Focus on Accuracy

Load 3 magazines with 10 rounds each

From the holster, draw and fire 10 sighted pairs. Focus on accuracy. (20 rnds)

From the ready position:
 Strong hand only, fire 5 singles. Focus on accuracy. (5 rnds)
 Weak hand only, fire 5 singles. Focus on accuracy. (5 rnds)

Stage Two/5 or 7 yards: The Mozambique Drill

Load 3 magazines with 10 rounds each

From the holster, draw and fire two rounds to the body and one round to the head (aka "The Mozambique Drill"). Be smooth. Focus on accuracy. Perform this drill 10 times. (30 rnds)

Stage Three/5 or 7 yards: Out of Battery Reloads

Load each of 3 magazines with 2 rounds each: Out-of-battery reloads:

From the holster, draw and fire two, reload, fire two, reload, and fire two.
(2+2+2). Perform this drill 2 times. (12 rnds)

Stage Four/5 or 7 yards: Clearing failure to fire malfunctions

Load each of 2 magazines with 4 live rounds and one inert "dummy" round.

From the holster, draw and engage the target, clearing the malfunction with a "tap-rack-ready" malfunction clearance whenever necessary. (8 rnds)

Stage Five/10 and 15 yards: Accuracy at distance

Load each of 2 magazines with 10 rounds each

 At 10 yards from the holster, draw & fire 5 sighted pairs (10 rnds)
 At 15 yards from the holster, draw & fire 5 sighted pairs (10 rnds)
 

Jeff22

New member
Central Texas Standards

CENTRAL TEXAS STANDARDS -- MODIFIED

This course of fire was originally developed by IPSC shooters Chip McCormick and Ronin Coleman.

PROCEDURE: Set up three IPSC targets in an "El Presidente" configuration 1 meter apart. The left target is A, the middle target is B and the right target is C. The course is a series of timed-fire Virginia Count exercises. Misses and shots not fired incur no penalty. Overtime shots are -5 points. Starting position is standing. Vary the starting position between hands clasped in front, hands at the sides, and hands in the "surrender" position.

Score and tape targets after each stage. 125 total rounds fired.

STAGE ONE-- 50 yards
Target A. Standing to prone, one round in 7.5 sec. 5X (5 rounds)

Target B. 2 rounds in 5.5 sec. 4X (8 rounds)

STAGE TWO -- 35 yards (out of battery reloads)
Target C. 1 round - reload - 1 round in 5.5 sec. 6X (12 rounds)

TOTAL ROUNDS/POINTS: 25/125

STAGE THREE -- 25 yards
Two rounds each on Targets A, B,C, six rounds in 10 sec. 2X (12 rounds)

TOTAL ROUNDS/POINTS: 12/60

STAGE FOUR -- 15 yards
One round each on Targets A,B,C, three rounds in 3.0 sec. 3X (9 rounds)
1 round - reload - 1 round - reload - 1 round in 5.5 sec. 2X (6 rounds)
One round weak hand only on each target in 3.5 sec. 2X (6 rounds)

TOTAL ROUNDS/POINTS: 21/105

STAGE FIVE -- 15 yards
Two rounds strong hand only on Targets A,B,C in 6.0 sec. (6 rounds)
1 headshot on each target , 4.0 sec per shot (3 rounds)

STAGE SIX -- 10 yards
2 round on each target, 2 rnds in 3.0 sec. 2X (12 rounds)

TOTAL ROUNDS/POINTS: 21/105


STAGE SEVEN -- 10 yards
2 rounds to the body, 1 headshot in 3.0 sec. Repeat on each target 2X(18 rnds)
Target C. 2 rounds in 1.5 sec. (5x) (10 rnds)

TOTAL ROUNDS/POINTS: 28/140.

STAGE EIGHT -- 7 yards
Target A. 1 headshot in 1.5 sec. 6X (6 rnds)
Target B. 2 rounds in 1.5 sec. 3X (6 rnds)
Target C. 1 round - reload - 1 round in 4.5 sec. 2X (6 rnds)

TOTAL ROUNDS/POINTS: 18/90

The time limits on this drill are tight and should be increased for shooters using practical holsters. An IPSC Grand Master should be able to "clean" this drill regularly.

To calculate percentages: total points divided by 6.25.

Variations:
 Add no-shoot targets covering the right C/D zone of Target A, the left D zone of target B, the right D zone of target B and to the left C/D zone of target C.
 Paint the bottom half of all targets black (from the base of the A zone on down) and score hits in hard cover as misses.
 
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