Question about Black Talons

[Rickstir]

When I journey into St. Louis for sporting events, we park at a bar in a "not so good" part of town. Sportswriter's bar, nice clientel and a great owner, personal friend. Missouri is a open carry state except for a few cities, St. Louis included. I always take "my little 9mm friend" into the bar and the owner puts it in his safe, rather than leave it in the car under the seat.

Last week he asked if my friend was a 9mm.....yes I said. He pulls out a plastic bag with about 75 rounds in it. About half and half were jacketed hollow points and black talons.

I have never had BT's, and thougth they were for LEO's only. That's where he got them, but his 9mm was solen out of his car a couple of years ago. Should I carry them, or what? What happens if I have to use them and the authorities determine the loads were BT's?

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Black Talons are not limited to LEOs. They were just a bullet that got a lot of bad press due to it's name and it's black coating. As a result, they were discontinued. There are now better rounds available on the market.

Given that these rounds are in a plastic bag instead of their original box, and not knowing how they have been stored over the years, I would not depend on them for a defensive load.

 

[MADISON]

Black Talons

Thanks to the Clinton Administration and the fact that he had to be against something, it got banned. It was so effective that the Politiclly Correct moaned and whined about a round, that a lot of police departments used, until it was removed from the market. I think it is still manufactured under a different name but without the word "BLACK"...ST.

 

[SkySlash]

MADISON, the Black Talon bullet was not banned, nor is it illegal anywhere that Hollow Points are a legal carry round.

The round was simply discontinued under that label by Winchester, due to bad press and media hype surrounding it.

-SS

 

[4V50 Gary]

Black Talon was used by Gian F. in his "shoot 'em up" episode at 101 California in San Francisco back in the early 90's (92 or 93?). The survivors and relatives of the deceased threatened to bring suit against Winchester, but agreed not to sue when Winchester decided to pull Black Talon from the civilian market and restrict sales to LE only. While there is no legal basis for the suit itself, Winchester decided that it didn't want to spend the $ for legal fees. Considering the politics of the time, I can't blame them. Klinton bad man.

It's not illegal, just harder to get.

 

[HKguy9]

Who's Gian F?

 

[SkySlash]

Gian F is the guy spoken of here: http://www.zpub.com/sf/1993/ferri.html

-SS

 

[Jim March]

The 9mm 147gr. BT wasn't actually that good a round! Especially not by today's standards. All the best 9mms are either 115gr or 124gr - you need the velocity to make a JHP open reliably and lighter weight equals more velocity.

Now, in 45ACP the BT was quite good. Possibly unsurpassed until the best Gold Dot-based loads (esp. by Pro-Load or Black Hills) or the Cor-Bon 165gr Pow'R'Ball came out.

I'd also consider the 357 BTs. But not the 9mm "heavy".

 

[4V50 Gary]

Thanks Skyslash for the link.

 

[dfaugh]

I've got some 127 grain

BT +P+, in a carbine VERY effective (limited testing, don't wanna use them up!) although probably not any better than Hydrashoks for example...They were also sold as "Ranger" to civilians (I have some of both)...They are still available many places (web auctions) tho kinda pricey, more than I paid for mine a coupla years ago

 

[Modifiedbrowning]

I thought the Black Talon was now the Ranger XT 147gr. No?

 

[Don Gwinn]

They're now sold as SXT and SXT Ranger. I don't remember which is which, but one (Ranger, I think) has the small post in the middle of the hollow point. The other does not. The one with the post comes in boxes marked "Law Enforcement Only," but there is no law against a civilian buying them or using them; it's just Winchester's policy to say that they are sold only to LEO's.

It has been reported many times that Winchester chose the name "SXT" as an acronym for "Same eXact Thing."

 

[dfaugh]

Methinks the new ones don't have the Black coating, as I have some of these as well(but also 127 +P+...Not sure what purpose it really served if any (all the gunshop Ninjas say that lets it penetrate body armor, of course!)

 

[chaim]

The uproar over Black Talon was kind of like the uproar over the "cop killer" bullets (or were these the cop killers, can never keep the BS straight).

I know that is why several of my more liberal friends claim to hate the NRA, they support those evil "cop killer" bullets- whatever that means :barf: .

Of course, I'm pretty sure no handgun round will go through the kind of vests the cops wear (some .357s and .44mags will go through some of the cheaper vests I think). Also, I wonder what those antis would think if they knew that most rifle calibers (incl. most common hunting calibers) will go through body armor with no problems. Better ban those evil cop killing hunting rifles, despite the fact that I've never heard of one cop killing involving rifles. Of course facts never stopped them, prior to 1986 who ever heard of a murder involving a full auto Uzi or AK in real life (yet today, due to SMGs being the "gang weapon of choice" we can't buy new autos)? I'm convinced seeing all those full auto "killings" in the movies fueled the ban on new full auto guns, just like news and TV dramas fueled the uproar over Black Talons and "cop killing" bullets.

 

[Jim March]

The deal with the "cop killer bullet ban" that the NRA did indeed fight is that the bill was written so that any bullet that could make it through a cheap vest was banned.

LONG gun or short.

Suuuuure, the NRA was supposed to back a ban on all civvie sales of 44Mag, .223, 30-30, 30-06, 308, 22Magnum...:barf:

 

[El Rojo]

If I were ever to get a hold of a box of Black Talons, I would sell them and buy 4-5 boxes of Federal Hydroshoks for the same price. They were just overhyped and now many gun owners think they are the most deadly bullet around. The most deadly bullet out there is the one you properly place on target, plain and simple.

 

[Art Eatman]

Certain medical personnel have an extreme dislike of bullets like the Black Talon. Some of the fragments are very, very sharp. A cut finger during repair-surgery really increases the possibility of AIDS.

Art