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PUMA STAINLESS M92 RIFLES
- Thread starter Grapeshot
- Start date
1. The top eject design makes it hard to scope. I think B-Square might make a base for a Scout scope that mounts forward of the action, probably requires drilling and tapping. IMO the hot ticket for a '92 is to install a tang peep sight.
2. Hot loads? Absolutely not! The action of a Ruger Redhawk or Blackhawk are way stronger than the action of a rear-locking Win '92 or it's copies. Push your luck and you'll soon be picking pieces of the bolt out of your forehead.
3. Properly tweaked (or if lucky) you might see 1" at 100yds. Under 3" is normal.
4. The Brazilian clones are very workmanlike, durable, and high functioning. They are not works of beauty, nor will they ever be worth anything as collectibles. The stainless models have caught my eye, the ones I've examined were no better finished than the blue models though. The poor wood-to-metal is obvious even to a casual observer.
I have a .357 Rossi, I've shot everything from JHP to LSWC to blackpowder handloads and it's never failed me. -- Kernel, NRA Life Member
2. Hot loads? Absolutely not! The action of a Ruger Redhawk or Blackhawk are way stronger than the action of a rear-locking Win '92 or it's copies. Push your luck and you'll soon be picking pieces of the bolt out of your forehead.
3. Properly tweaked (or if lucky) you might see 1" at 100yds. Under 3" is normal.
4. The Brazilian clones are very workmanlike, durable, and high functioning. They are not works of beauty, nor will they ever be worth anything as collectibles. The stainless models have caught my eye, the ones I've examined were no better finished than the blue models though. The poor wood-to-metal is obvious even to a casual observer.
I have a .357 Rossi, I've shot everything from JHP to LSWC to blackpowder handloads and it's never failed me. -- Kernel, NRA Life Member
I presume your are referring to the old Rossi Model 92 lever action rifle now being sold as Navy Arms Model 92.
As a related question concerning the strength of the Navy Arms Model 92, I e-mail Navy Arms asking if they would market a .44 Magnum version of their Model 92, and if not why not. Their reply to the first question was NO and there was no reply to the second question. Strange that Rossi marketed the same rifle in .44 Magnum. Does Navy Arms have doubts about this rifles strenght? Is Brazialian steel inferior?
Having left me wondering about the strength of the Navy Arms in .44 Magnum, I certainly would hestitate to use HOT RELOADS in a 45Colt version of their Model 92. If you are shooting hot 45Colt reloads in a Ruger Blackhawk you should keep them separate from your rifle ammunition ... which could be a problem if you are not careful.
In response to Navy Arms negative answer, I purchased a Winchester Model 92 in .44 Magnum which will be used mostly with .44 Special cowboy loads. This is the same Japanese contract rifle that Browning sold for many years in this caliber. Does the Winchester/Browning Model 92 have better metallurgy or what? Who knows!
As a related question concerning the strength of the Navy Arms Model 92, I e-mail Navy Arms asking if they would market a .44 Magnum version of their Model 92, and if not why not. Their reply to the first question was NO and there was no reply to the second question. Strange that Rossi marketed the same rifle in .44 Magnum. Does Navy Arms have doubts about this rifles strenght? Is Brazialian steel inferior?
Having left me wondering about the strength of the Navy Arms in .44 Magnum, I certainly would hestitate to use HOT RELOADS in a 45Colt version of their Model 92. If you are shooting hot 45Colt reloads in a Ruger Blackhawk you should keep them separate from your rifle ammunition ... which could be a problem if you are not careful.
In response to Navy Arms negative answer, I purchased a Winchester Model 92 in .44 Magnum which will be used mostly with .44 Special cowboy loads. This is the same Japanese contract rifle that Browning sold for many years in this caliber. Does the Winchester/Browning Model 92 have better metallurgy or what? Who knows!
Hot loads? Absolutely not! The action of a
Ruger Redhawk or Blackhawk are way
stronger than the action of a rear-locking Win
'92 or it's copies. Push your luck and you'll
soon be picking pieces of the bolt out of your
forehead.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Somebody better let Winchester and Puma (Rossi/Taurus/whoever) know about this so they can recall all of their .44 Magnum caliber '92's, what with the action being so weak and all.
Ruger Redhawk or Blackhawk are way
stronger than the action of a rear-locking Win
'92 or it's copies. Push your luck and you'll
soon be picking pieces of the bolt out of your
forehead.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Somebody better let Winchester and Puma (Rossi/Taurus/whoever) know about this so they can recall all of their .44 Magnum caliber '92's, what with the action being so weak and all.
Winchester Model 92
Wolf Publishing's "The Lever Action Rifle" has articles on both the Model 1892 and Model 1886 Winchester rifles. Not quoting but paraphrasing their description of the Model 1892, they said it was a downsized version of the Model 1886 which was one of the strongest lever action rifles made. This implies that the Winchester Model 1892 relatively strong.
Nevertheless, I do have serious questions about those Brazilian manufactured Rossi and Navy Arms Model 92 rifles. Certainly the dimensions of the 45Colt leave less margin for error.
It would be better to get a Model 94 Big Bore in .375 if you want more power, or maybe something in .444 Marlin or .450 Marlin. Why take chances on the Model 92?
Wolf Publishing's "The Lever Action Rifle" has articles on both the Model 1892 and Model 1886 Winchester rifles. Not quoting but paraphrasing their description of the Model 1892, they said it was a downsized version of the Model 1886 which was one of the strongest lever action rifles made. This implies that the Winchester Model 1892 relatively strong.
Nevertheless, I do have serious questions about those Brazilian manufactured Rossi and Navy Arms Model 92 rifles. Certainly the dimensions of the 45Colt leave less margin for error.
It would be better to get a Model 94 Big Bore in .375 if you want more power, or maybe something in .444 Marlin or .450 Marlin. Why take chances on the Model 92?
Grapeshot, when you ask for advice don't be surprised (or insulting) when you get it. It really shows bad manners and low character to start a thread then belittle a sincere response just because you don't agree with or understand the answer.
Perhaps you are unaware of a common practice called "handloading". It's all the rage now. Most reloading books have special sections for high pressure loads for strong guns like Contenders and the Ruger revolvers. Though safe in a few specific overbuilt handguns these hot overloads generate pressures significantly higher than SAMMI maximums and are more powerful than anything you can buy from a reputable manufacturer - Corbon included.
The 1886 is a great rifle and a relatively strong action, but have you ever seen one chambered in .30-06? Or anything approaching a modern centerfire rifle cartridge? No, because grand though these old 19th Century designs are the springy rear locking action can't take high pressures. The design peaked in 1938 with the Model '71 in .348 Winchester and hasn't been heard from since. The '92's design is essentially the same just smaller and weaker.
I'm sure you can safely shoot any over-the-counter .44 Mag ammo in a Brazilian or Japanese '92 clone. However, I'd strongly urge everyone to stay away from playing Handload Hot Rod in these rifles. Do so and you may soon experience the meaning of the phrase "spontaneous disassembly." -- Kernel, NRA Life Member
Perhaps you are unaware of a common practice called "handloading". It's all the rage now. Most reloading books have special sections for high pressure loads for strong guns like Contenders and the Ruger revolvers. Though safe in a few specific overbuilt handguns these hot overloads generate pressures significantly higher than SAMMI maximums and are more powerful than anything you can buy from a reputable manufacturer - Corbon included.
The 1886 is a great rifle and a relatively strong action, but have you ever seen one chambered in .30-06? Or anything approaching a modern centerfire rifle cartridge? No, because grand though these old 19th Century designs are the springy rear locking action can't take high pressures. The design peaked in 1938 with the Model '71 in .348 Winchester and hasn't been heard from since. The '92's design is essentially the same just smaller and weaker.
I'm sure you can safely shoot any over-the-counter .44 Mag ammo in a Brazilian or Japanese '92 clone. However, I'd strongly urge everyone to stay away from playing Handload Hot Rod in these rifles. Do so and you may soon experience the meaning of the phrase "spontaneous disassembly." -- Kernel, NRA Life Member
Thanks AUTiger,
I found your post very informative. I too have some reservations about Brazillian quality and whether the same ability to fire .44 Magnums would be carried over to the dimensionally similar but less strong .45 Colt. I think I'll just stick with a Winchester '94 Trapper for the strength and scopeability. Just can't help wanting one in one in stainless.
Kernel, what the hell is wrong with you?
I asked about Ruger-level .45 Colt handloads, and you immediately equate that with shoving a 30-06 into a '92 action. Take a look at those reloading manuals you so condescendingly advocate and you'll see that a hot-loaded .45 Colt isn't much different than a .44 Mag. for pressure.
For your information, it is also bad form to comment on a question when YOU don't understand it or even really know anything about it. Ranting on nonsensically against handloading and the '92, what do you expect?
I found your post very informative. I too have some reservations about Brazillian quality and whether the same ability to fire .44 Magnums would be carried over to the dimensionally similar but less strong .45 Colt. I think I'll just stick with a Winchester '94 Trapper for the strength and scopeability. Just can't help wanting one in one in stainless.
Kernel, what the hell is wrong with you?
I asked about Ruger-level .45 Colt handloads, and you immediately equate that with shoving a 30-06 into a '92 action. Take a look at those reloading manuals you so condescendingly advocate and you'll see that a hot-loaded .45 Colt isn't much different than a .44 Mag. for pressure.
For your information, it is also bad form to comment on a question when YOU don't understand it or even really know anything about it. Ranting on nonsensically against handloading and the '92, what do you expect?
Kernel,
Well if desiring a logical, reasoned reply instead of a "because I said so" reply makes me a "nitwit", I guess I just am.
I guess your amazing ego just wasn't enough to persuade me to your point of view.
I wasn't trying to be mean to you personally, it just really annoys me when someone takes the kind of condescending tone that you did. On these boards, prestige means little; if you desire respect, you have to earn it with cool logic, not personal opinion.
I'm not sure what being "educated" by you means, since I think I was the one to enlighten you.
But on the other hand, even the greatest teachers can always benefit from a little more education. I've never met a teacher yet who hasn't learned at least a little bit from his students. If you want to go "educating" people around here, you might keep that in mind.
But some teachers find this two-way learning process painful. Maybe if your feelings get hurt so easily, "educating" people on these boards just isn't for you.
[Edited by Grapeshot on 05-12-2001 at 08:28 AM]
Well if desiring a logical, reasoned reply instead of a "because I said so" reply makes me a "nitwit", I guess I just am.
I guess your amazing ego just wasn't enough to persuade me to your point of view.
I wasn't trying to be mean to you personally, it just really annoys me when someone takes the kind of condescending tone that you did. On these boards, prestige means little; if you desire respect, you have to earn it with cool logic, not personal opinion.
I'm not sure what being "educated" by you means, since I think I was the one to enlighten you.
But on the other hand, even the greatest teachers can always benefit from a little more education. I've never met a teacher yet who hasn't learned at least a little bit from his students. If you want to go "educating" people around here, you might keep that in mind.
But some teachers find this two-way learning process painful. Maybe if your feelings get hurt so easily, "educating" people on these boards just isn't for you.
[Edited by Grapeshot on 05-12-2001 at 08:28 AM]