PTR 91 model PTR 101 good or bad for prepping???
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Old Bill Dibble
New member
Prepping for what? 
Always loved the original 91, shot one many years ago. My only problem with it and its variants is what it does to the brass. I don't remember from when I shot one, this is from reading up, but it seems ro really tear up brass. I like to shoot, so If I can't reload it, chances are I'm not going to be able to shoot it as much as I would like and that would stop me from buying, but that's just me.
The HK91 series of rifles are very simple to maintain and simple in operation. Like all semi automatic rifles they require a clean chamber, particularly as the high power roller bolts are delayed blowback mechanisms and use gas lubrication to break the friction between case and chamber.
Ammunition that clogs up the flutes, such as ammunition with tar around the bullet, will cause failures to eject. Ammunition for these rifles needs to be clean burning and the operator still has to keep the chamber clean for reliable operation. Keeping the chamber clean is a requirement for all gas operated guns so I don't know if any are more sensitive than any other in this regard, but some actions are more ammunition sensitive and the roller bolt fall into this category.
I had the plastic stock crack on my PTR, I have not idea why, maybe solvents attacked it. PTR replaced the buttstock free, but I would recommend to others, that wood furniture is going to be more durable, in my opinion.
The HK91 rifles are still in general service around the world, so the basic design has to be a good one.
Ammunition that clogs up the flutes, such as ammunition with tar around the bullet, will cause failures to eject. Ammunition for these rifles needs to be clean burning and the operator still has to keep the chamber clean for reliable operation. Keeping the chamber clean is a requirement for all gas operated guns so I don't know if any are more sensitive than any other in this regard, but some actions are more ammunition sensitive and the roller bolt fall into this category.
I had the plastic stock crack on my PTR, I have not idea why, maybe solvents attacked it. PTR replaced the buttstock free, but I would recommend to others, that wood furniture is going to be more durable, in my opinion.
The HK91 rifles are still in general service around the world, so the basic design has to be a good one.
what is the model on that PTR? I am looking at the 91fr ptr102 ( the name has both but in the specifications at the top of the screen it says ptr102)
I have roughly 1700 rounds of soft point 308 and around 1000 rounds of fmj that I shoot through an ar10. but I really like these guns and it was perfect when I shouldered the one my buddy has.
I need it to shoot thousands of rounds and be durable.
I have roughly 1700 rounds of soft point 308 and around 1000 rounds of fmj that I shoot through an ar10. but I really like these guns and it was perfect when I shouldered the one my buddy has.
I need it to shoot thousands of rounds and be durable.
Model12Win
Moderator
They are well made and rugged. Neat powerful battle rifles that will outperform any AR-15 ballistically all day long and be able to pierce light cover, unarmored vehicles, and almost all body armor easily. You can scope them but personally I think they are better in the role of a true battle rifle: stick with either iron sights or a red dot and keep engagement distances to about 400 meters. They were designed as battle rifles, not sniper rifles. Think of them as an extra powerful AK and don't load it up with a bunch of bipods, lights, or other crap because they're a 10 lbs rifle naked anyway.
Buy one. Learn it, shoot it (it should be reliable). Learn how to check the bolt gap. These things love the cheap steel cased Tulammo, that's pretty much all I run through mine. They also like the MKE Turkish brass cased 7.62 NATO stuff, hell that's what the Turks use in their G3s (which is still their standard issue rifle).
Great guns. Freakin' fun to shoot as all get out. Again:
BUY ONE!
Buy one. Learn it, shoot it (it should be reliable). Learn how to check the bolt gap. These things love the cheap steel cased Tulammo, that's pretty much all I run through mine. They also like the MKE Turkish brass cased 7.62 NATO stuff, hell that's what the Turks use in their G3s (which is still their standard issue rifle).
Great guns. Freakin' fun to shoot as all get out. Again:
BUY ONE!
Old Bill Dibble
New member
In Germany back in the Cold War days I went to a few ranges with the Germans and shot the G3. It is a solid rifle and the ones I used performed without malfunction. They were heavy, much heavier than the M16A2. I think the weight helped with follow up shots.
If you are going to hide to in your underground bunker you could make a worse choice. If you are going 25 miles on foot I'd pick something different.
If you are going to hide to in your underground bunker you could make a worse choice. If you are going 25 miles on foot I'd pick something different.
deerslayer303
New member
It's made in SC so it's top notch!! I need to buy one just to support my states economy. We, like Texas welcome ALL gun companies fleeing states run by gun hating liberals. Sorry, but I couldn't resist. [emoji3]
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
I had an actual Hk 91 back in the mid 80s. My impression was that while it had its good points, an M1A fits my needs better in all ways.
I don't have a PTR, and can only repeat hearsay about them, but I have heard that they are cheap crap, and the opposite, that they are a decent knock off copy of the HK. SO, that's a wash.
With the fluted chamber system, not only do you need it (relatively) clean, you need ammo with cases of the "right" hardness/softness that the rifle likes.
Mine would constantly choke on USGI milsurp ammo (unless you oiled it), but would run fine on European milsup ball.
I never even remotely thought of trying steel cases, so, no opinion there. (other than, if you are prepping for a situation where spare parts are not easily come by, then shooting something that puts extra strain & wear on your gun probably isn't the best idea)
(notes from the HK)
Trigger is heavy, but otherwise decent
You cannot reach the safety with the hand in the firing position.
Not very reloader friendly
6" shorter than my M1A, weighs the same amount
NO method of closing the action other than the spring alone
Accessories were not cheap (not sure this still applies)
If you have a use for a .308, you are better off with a .308 than a .223. The HK was a decent rifle, I thought. Not as good as the M1A, but I have a bias for that one.
I don't have a PTR, and can only repeat hearsay about them, but I have heard that they are cheap crap, and the opposite, that they are a decent knock off copy of the HK. SO, that's a wash.
With the fluted chamber system, not only do you need it (relatively) clean, you need ammo with cases of the "right" hardness/softness that the rifle likes.
Mine would constantly choke on USGI milsurp ammo (unless you oiled it), but would run fine on European milsup ball.
I never even remotely thought of trying steel cases, so, no opinion there. (other than, if you are prepping for a situation where spare parts are not easily come by, then shooting something that puts extra strain & wear on your gun probably isn't the best idea
)(notes from the HK)
Trigger is heavy, but otherwise decent
You cannot reach the safety with the hand in the firing position.
Not very reloader friendly
6" shorter than my M1A, weighs the same amount
NO method of closing the action other than the spring alone
Accessories were not cheap (not sure this still applies)
If you have a use for a .308, you are better off with a .308 than a .223. The HK was a decent rifle, I thought. Not as good as the M1A, but I have a bias for that one.
PTR makes some good rifles, but they don't have near the Q/C Hk did, and let about as many lemons out into circulation as any other company these days.
Mine is a solid rifle and I haven't had any issues with it that weren't attributed to cheap surplus mags from the 70's. Keep in mind, these rifles were designed around Nato ammunition, so they do best with 150gr or thereabouts bullets.
If you have a properly built rifle you don't really have to fret too much about keeping the flutes clean. And go light on the oil, I've heard it said these rifles run better dry than over oiled.
Next to an AK, this is probably one of the more reliable and maintenance light rifles available these days.
Mine is a solid rifle and I haven't had any issues with it that weren't attributed to cheap surplus mags from the 70's. Keep in mind, these rifles were designed around Nato ammunition, so they do best with 150gr or thereabouts bullets.
If you have a properly built rifle you don't really have to fret too much about keeping the flutes clean. And go light on the oil, I've heard it said these rifles run better dry than over oiled.
Next to an AK, this is probably one of the more reliable and maintenance light rifles available these days.
USGI ammunition has a tar sealant around the bullet and that will gum up the flutes. If you oiled your ammunition, I will bet the oil helped solvate the tar and kept the flutes functional. Since this is a delayed blowback, case lubrication, either passive, such as oil or grease, or active, such a gas lubrication, is required to keep the thing running:
It might be possible that the USGI ammunition you had was old and overpressure. That will cause issues. I have run Chinese steel case through my PTR 91 and never had an issue. I don't remember the model number of my rifle, it was the cheapest version available at the time, an 18" barrel.
I took it over to a buddy of mine, he has a real full auto HK submachine gun. Both of us agree that the fit and finish of the PTR was better than the HK, PTR made a conscious decision to smooth out the welds and make the rifle "pretty". HK's welds looked like toothpaste that oozed out of the tube. For a weapon that cost two to three times as much, (now probably 10 times) HK should have done better.
My rifle "liked" 150 grain bullets better than heavierbullets. I am also of the opinion that this action likes faster than slower powders. I would use powders that are in the burn rate of IMR 4895, or faster. Accurate Arms told me AA2520 has the same pressure curve as IMR 4895. I bought kegs of the stuff when it was $69.00 for eight pounds! Those were the days.
AA2520 is a ball powder and left a lot more residue in the action, but regardless of ammunition, this mechanism leaves a lot of residue in the chamber. I think the best overall powders are IMR 4895/H4895/AA2495, which are basically duplicates of each other, buy by price. I think IMR 3031 would be a good powder as it is slightly faster than IMR 4895, I have used it in my M1a and it shot great and functioned great.
Code:
[SIZE="3"][B]PTR91[/B] 18" barrel
150 gr Australian Ball MF83 headstamp (actually 147 grain)
30 April 2008 T = 75 °F
Ave Vel =2599
Std Dev =23
ES = 63
High =2630
Low = 2567
N = 10
poor accuracy
148 gr IMI FMJBT 42.5 grs AA2520 wtd Lot 9595 Czech Mixed LC WLR OAL LT 2.800, set to cannelure
30 April 2008 T = 75 °F
Ave Vel =2496
Std Dev =33
ES = 88
High = 2537
Low = 2449
N = 10
150 gr Hornady FMJBT 42.5 grs AA2520 wtd Lot 9595 Czech Mixed LC WLR
OAL 2.785
30 April 2008 T = 75 °F
Ave Vel =2499
Std Dev =29
ES = 94
High =2539
Low = 2445
N = 10
best accuracy, shot high
150 gr Hornady FMJBT 43.0 grs AA2520 wtd Lot 9595 Czech Mixed LC WLR
OAL 2.785
30 April 2008 T = 75 °F
Ave Vel =2544
Std Dev =32
ES = 84
High =2574
Low = 2490
N = 5
poor accuracy[/SIZE]That was bad advice. This mechanism should be well greased or oiled. The Swiss issue a molygrease for their roller bolts. I pack the grease around the rollers, about the same as I do when I grease wheel bearings.
That firing pin spring is one reason I have never heard of slamfires in this mechanism. This rifle cannot slamfire out of battery due to a firing pin initiated slamfire because the firing pin is positively kept back before the lugs are engaged. And, once in battery, the firing pin spring is so strong, (I think you could use it as a valve spring!), that the free floating firing pin does not bounce around.
The more I examine this action the more impressed I am with attention to details and the engineering by Vorgrimler's team.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Vorgrimler Volgrimmer
This is a great video on the development of these weapons, and you see the bolt bounce in the WW2 early weapons.
Last Ditch Innovation: The Development of the Gerat 06 and Gerat 06H Rifles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEPwmYcCPFs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl2aOhQus0o
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/german-ww2-rifles/gerat-06h/
Gerat 03 Disassembly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3GJAPgz23c
Another interesting video of roller bolt action:
Delayed Blowback System in Firearms
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xusr9M9cHr4
Last edited:
Model12Win
Moderator
T Pro, did you get it yet?
A PTR-91 is a GREAT prepping rifle. Excellent stopping power and standoff capability. They can and will penetrate a lot of people or light vehicle cover.
A PTR-91 is a GREAT prepping rifle. Excellent stopping power and standoff capability. They can and will penetrate a lot of people or light vehicle cover.
I have a ptr91, and I like it.
Roller lock action is actually not sensitive to ammunitions. It only need ammunition that is strong enough to unlock the action, so it doesn't do light load.
I like my ptr as a range rifle. Don't know much about prepping. But I probably will choose something else for that purpose if I have to. Something more practical and utilitarian, such as AR or ak, which you can find parts and ammunitions for.
-TL
Roller lock action is actually not sensitive to ammunitions. It only need ammunition that is strong enough to unlock the action, so it doesn't do light load.
I like my ptr as a range rifle. Don't know much about prepping. But I probably will choose something else for that purpose if I have to. Something more practical and utilitarian, such as AR or ak, which you can find parts and ammunitions for.
-TL
Model12Win
Moderator
It isn't hard to find ammunitions for the PTR-91 either, it's a .308/7.62 NATO. A VERY common hunting round and used in U.S. military machine guns and sniper rifles.