Pt. Mugu Airshow

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Destructo6

New member
Went to the Pt Mugu Airshow today. You've probably already heard.

A diamond formation of two F-4's and two F-14's did a flyby before landing. On the brake, the leftmost F-4's left engine sputtered and shot flames out the back. Then it crashed. The back seater ejected, but didn't do it in time.

I had a bad feeling about it when I saw the F-4's taxi onto the runway. Planes that far out of regular service should be flown as little as possible, IMO.

It's one of those things you see on "Caught on Camera" or "RealTV", but you never expect to witness.

The two men will be missed.
 
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Navy joe

New member
Was it a Navy Aircraft? Haven't heard. Old don't equal bad unless the parts support is not there, the F-4 is still a good bird, coulda happened to anything unfortunately. Many countries still operate the F-4 as a front line fighter, the Germans being one. One of the prettiest things I've gotten to see was when the German air force came out for a joint exercise with us in Italy, seeing F-4's overhead in the pattern on a carrier just seemed right, a nice little step back in time. None of the Germans was deck qualed of course, but they made a pretty pattern run trailing hooks all the same. Watching their section of Fulcrums was great too, quite possibly one of the prettiest aircraft ever built, I've got pictures of one that flew a simulated approach so close in he disappeared below deck level before pulling power, guess he wanted to give us all a good show. As far as the F-4 the things it needs like all old aircraft is upgraded engines and avionics. I'm not sure if the Germans are reworking the structure adding new wings and such, still a solid aircraft.

I wonder too about the circumstances, Top Gun BS not withstanding, turbulence induced compressor stall does happen, was an F-14 lead? They move a lot of air. The description sounds like a compressor stall, especially if it gave a really loud pop, another unfortunate possibility is the ever present MK1 seagull.

Two good men will be missed, but it's not a tragedy, it's part of the accepted risk every person likes them takes every flight, the same one we take every morning, let's just not forget them. The Blue angels come to my town next weekend, let's hope they have a safe show.
 
J

JFucile

New member
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002/04/21/airshow.htm

Navy jet crashes during airshow, killing 2

VENTURA, Calif. (AP) — A low-flying F-4 crashed Saturday during an air show at the Point Mugu Naval Air Weapons station, killing its two crew members, Navy officials said.

One of the crew members ejected from the jet as it flew less than 200 feet above the ground before crashing. The jet burst into an enormous ball of flame when it smashed into the ground on the west side of the base.

The jet and its crew had been taking part in the 38th Point Mugu Airshow. It was performing with five other military aircraft when it crashed.

Navy officials identified the crew members as 39-year-old Navy Cmdr. Michael Norman, the pilot, and 31-year-old Marine Corps Capt. Andrew Muhs, a radar intercept officer. Their hometowns were not released.

Videotape of the crash showed the parachute of the crew member's ejection seat only partially inflate as it followed the crippled aircraft.

Eyewitness Jim Hardie said the plane was banking right when a sudden burst of flame came from the engine area.

"We saw a real, quick flash in the middle of the toss of flames," Hardie said. The plane was about 150 to 200 feet from the ground at the time, said Hardie, who was about a quarter-mile from the crash.

There were no injuries on the ground, said spokesman Vance Vasquez. He said the plane went down in a remote area of the base.

The show was halted and the thousands of spectators were told to leave the base. Vasquez said the show was scheduled to continue Sunday.

The jet was a QF-4 Phantom II, assigned to the Naval Air Weapons Test Squadron at Point Mugu. The Q designation means the plane is used as a target by the Navy, Vasquez said.

Point Mugu is about 50 miles northwest of Los Angeles.
 
C

clem

Moderator
Sadness, it's real sad to lose good men to a accident like this.
I'll guess the engine ate a bird which caused the engine problem.

Clem
USMC Retired
 
F

Fly320s

New member
Can the F4 not fly single-engine? Maybe it was too low and slow?

Isn't that the point of having two engines? When one dies, you limp home on the other.
 
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bruels

New member
I flew A7s at Point Mugu on my last assignment in the Navy. Point Mugu is a wildlife sanctuary with many birds. It is very possible the F4 ingested a bird.

With only one ejection observed, I am beginning to believe the crew stayed with the aircraft too long.
 
D

Destructo6

New member
I have to BTT this. Mainly, because it strikes close to home.

You see, my brother was flying one of the other planes. He knew both of the men.

I can't count the number of times he's had to fly a < 100% plane. That includes F14's. Fighters are such complex weapons systems, each nearly a prototype, it's a wonder they ever work.

Our mother was standing next to me when the F4 went down. It took several affirmations for her to accept that the fireball was not pyrotechnics. We all stood there slack jawed.

My mother has always had reservations about him flying. Danger included, I wouldn't want him to quit. I wonder if it's the same feeling of freedom I get when I ride a motorcycle, particularly when racing: dangerous, yet fullfilling.

However, I have a hard time reconciling this with the loss of two good men. One was recently married, the other had a newborn second child.

I know, there are no answers.
 
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