PSL or "Saiganov"?

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Warhammer

New member
I'd love to get a Tigr or Dragunov, but neither is within my means to buy. So, I've seen some really good looking Saiga .308 rifles that were modified to have the PSL/Dragunov look. I've been thinking about getting a PSL for a while, but I'm starting to wonder if I should get a Saiga .308 and build a "Saiganov" instead.

So what would be the pros and cons of each choice?

I've read that the 7.62x54r round is ballistically very similar to .308, but I've also read that it is very similar to .30-06. I know the PSL is limited to light ball ammo, so full-bore .30-06 performance seems unlikely. Surplus 7.62x54 is cheap, but there seems to be more options available in .308. According to Saiga's website, the Saiga .308's barrel is only 10mm shorter than a Tigr's barrel. I'm not a big traditionalist, so "having a real PSL" or "why make a copy when you can buy the real thing" is not a good enough reason in itself for me to choose the PSL.

Is the Saiga .308 capable of as good or better accuracy than the PSL? Will effective range be the same on both? How is .308 vs 7.62x54r for hunting? What about felt recoil; is one better than the other? Will one hold up better over time?

Talk to me about accuracy, power, range, price, ammo, etc... Opinions from anyone who has actually owned or shot BOTH the PSL and the Saiga .308 would be especially appreciated.
 
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Jimro

New member
Haven't shot a PSL, but have handled plenty of SVD's.

I'm on my second Saiga 308.

The ballistic difference between 7.62x54r and 7.62x51 (308 Win) is not a big deal. The "good" or match grade 7.62x54r surplus is drying up very quickly, so the 308 wins in the accuracy department (although getting milsurp match grade 308 is slim too).

There are a lot more match bullets available in .308 than in .311 so the Saiga wins on that account.

Recoil, meh, don't have a force guage to tell if there is any difference.

Killing power? The 308 is only about 100 fps less than the 30-06 with heavy loads, and the 7.62x54r is in the same range. They will all toss a 147gr FMJ at 2750 fps easily.

Jimro
 
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bamaranger

New member
I own a SSG-97, which is the same as PSL/Romak -3, in x54r caliber.
Sorry, no experience w/ Saiga .308.

Me thinks that by the time you modify a Saiga to get the look you want, you'll have more in it $$$$ wise than if you'd bought the PSL to start with.

+1 on the caliber/performance info, its an apples to apples comparison.

There are some .308 cal PSL/SSG's out there. That would likely be the best of both worlds, com-bloc look, but western, domestic ammo.

My PSL/SSG shoots .308 dia slugs just fine, w/ reloads using 150 gr Match Kings giving best groups. (still only about 2 MOA) Surplus and Wolfe ammo do much worse. They're a blast to shoot, recoil is mild for a full power .30, but it is noisy due to the brake. The POSP 8x is holding up OK, w 500 rds expended. The Commie range finder is cool and useful if you know target size. No math ranging. The rifle EATS brass and reloading yields better accuracy, but no economy due to spoiled cases. A better trigger would help group size and shootability, there are options, but I have not spent the cash for one.

BTW
The short Saiga intrigues me, sort of a poor mans SOCOM-16.
 
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Bigfatts

New member
I've been tossing around the same idea. Right now I'm leaning more towards the PSL because of price. You can get a PSL complete with scope and accessories for less than $50 more than just a standard .308 Saiga. Add a Dragunov style stock to that, a scope, etc and you have $800 plus in it-if you go with decent optics- vs $600 plus shipping/transfer for the PSL.

Wolf makes a 150gr match load now, brass cases too. Its cheap. Surplus is still cheap too. A friend of mine has a PSL and he enjoys it thoroughly. He gets right around 1 MOA with hand loads, under 2 with surplus.

If factory ammo availability is top of the list for you, or you want a cool looking synthetic rifle go with the Saiga. If dollars are more important and you like the more traditional aesthetics go with the PSL. JMO
 
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kwells6

New member
I personally have dealt with both sides of that fence.

PSL= POS they're cheap made knock offs. I've tried over 100 ammo types (including hand loads) in 3 different rifles and nothing will shoot better than 4" @ 100yds. Parts were hard to find and there isnt much more than a scope or stock set change to them. restricted to 10 rounds too.

Saiga= Better but not great. I've had them in .223, .308, and .410. The .308's are nice and easy to modify and if you look enough you will find one for LESS THAT a PSL. Parts are more readily available and so are mags. And the Saiga is lighter, so if you will be hunting with it, it makes a difference
 
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Bigfatts

New member
Kwells, the rifles you have handled, were they the current imports or older ones? I have read of accuracy and fit/finish problems in the rifles imported a few years ago. Many were sold as new when in fact they were built from demilled parts kits that were often heavily used. I haven't heard of the problems you mention with the new imports, they are all new from the factory. Most of the reports I've read say 1.5-3" is the norm at 100yds. Not stellar but its just a big AK. Probably wouldn't get more than that out of a Saiga.
 
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olyinaz

New member
PSL

Bigfatts: An update on my saga. The first PSL fell through but I've another on the way. $465 shipped with no optic but two mags and an HK cleaning kit (not sure what the heck that is, but hey...).

I'll get a mount and put one of the scopes I've already got on it (I find myself with too many good optics).

For that kind of money I'm more than willing to take a risk on one of these PSLs. Really looking forward to it in fact.

Will report when able!

Best,
Oly
 
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savage1r

New member
My dad owns both, I've shot them both, quick breakdown of + and -
PSL:
1. Very accurate (500 yards no problem) +
2. 10 round mag -
3. Cheap, EFFECTIVE ammo ($0.17 per round vs $0.48 .308) and 75% of 7.62x54r surplus ammo on the market is steel core = AP + +
4. More recoil than the saiga -

Saiga:
1. Very accurate (was only able to test out to 100 yds iron sights at the time, but it was right on) +
2. 20-25 rnd mags +
3. EXPENSIVE ammo, even if you reload it's more expensive than 7.62x54r - -
4. Surprisingly low recoil for a .308, about the same as an AK-47

So, technically, the Saiga is a more capable .30 cal rifle, but for me the cheapness/effectiveness of the 7.62x54r makes the PSL a gun you can shoot for 1/3 of the price of a .308. Meaning you can shoot as much as you want and not break the bank and the 7.62x54r will go through just about anything you shoot at...and whatever is behind it.
 
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BobbyT

New member
So buy a case of 1200 for shooting, and a backup case of 1200 so you'll have a head start if it gets hard to find.

We're talking about a full-on rifle round, not pistol stuff. How much long range .30 cal shooting do you guys do?
 
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olyinaz

New member
keep in mind, all that CHEAP 7.62x54R will dry up one day...
Click to expand...

Not for a long time! 7.62x54R is still front line issue across the world. Bajillion (technical term) rounds of it made every year and unlike 7.62x39 it hasn't been supplanted in popular military arms by 5.45x39 (for which I have no use).

From a mil-surp perspective it's rounds like .30-06, .30 Carbine, 8mm Mauser and .303 British that are drying up (or already have).

Oly
 
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