Proper Range behaviour...

[DanP]

I'm sure this is a topic beaten to death, but still...

So besides the obvious safety rules we all observe, what goes?

* Ammo (for us revolver folks) - do we really just push our empties onto the ground? Just seems sloppy.

* If I run out of targets / ammo, need a bathroom break, whatever, what is the convention? Can I just unload my gun(s) and leave them on my lane, or is that taboo? Thoughts?

* What is the accepted definition for "no rapid fire"? There must be some sort of average. 1 second? 5? 10?

* Courtesy: I don't engage folks within the lane area, and follow the regular billiard rules when even walking behind lanes. But I don't mind folks wanting to share impressions, weapons - matter of fact I encourage that for my own education.

What is the etiquette here (maybe just the old rule of co-workers meeting at the urinals staring forward...)

 

[Jager1]

1. You give all of your expended brass to me after collecting it on your shooting bench. (Really, you do).

2. I generally have someone with me to watch my firearms in my absence, but will advise a rangemaster otherwise.

3. Rapid fire is generally an arbitrary term. Where I shoot, if you can control it, it isn't "rapid". But, then again, they permit autos.

4. You are okay with your rules of engagement.

 

[KSFreeman]

Pick up your gear when you leave and that includes your brass. It's the old Boy Scout rule: leave the place in better shape than when you arrived and others will emulate you. Take kitchen trash bags with you.

I have no idea about "rapid fire." I shoot as quickly as I can, however I only train to save my self, not for "scores." I have read that in some places they have certain shots per minute rules. Silly to me.

 

[Quartus]

KS, the 'shots per minute' rules are there (in many places) to keep idiots who have watched too much TV from sending lead hither, thither, and yon. Not needed whrere there are no idiots.


If you are training for self-defense shooting, you dump the brass. Pick it up later.

It's well documented that teaching cops to dump the brass in their hands (to keep the range and brass clean) has resulted in dead cops. Couldn't break the habit in a real fight, so lost seconds they didn't have trying to reload "range style" instead of combat style. How can anyone know that? Finding dead cops with empty brass clutched in their firing hand.

 

[D.W. Drang]

When LSW questioned my saving old peanut butter buckets (we buy it in 5 pound buckets with handles) I pointed out that they are pretty good for holding brass.
I'm sure you could find something similar to have sittign on the bench or ground where you dump it. As noted, if you are training for self-defense shooting, you don't weant to develop any bad habits.

I would say that the answer to the other quesitons would depend on where you are shooting. Is it a club? A public range? A commercial range? If I was alone at a public range, no range officer in sight, I would think tweice about leaving my guns and gear sitting on a bench while I made a pit stop...

 

[JBP]

1. One of the outdoor ranges I shoot at furnishes brooms, brushes, and dustpans so you can police your brass (& they expect you to do it). The other outdoor range you will see the reloaders policing their spent brass (and anyone elses that just leaves it there). At the indoor range a range officer will push it in front of the lane.

2. If there is no range officer present & I don't know anyone the firearms are unloaded and come with me.

3. Rapid fire (where autos are not allowed) is in the eye of the range officer.

4. On ranges that call a formal cease fire that is when I'll go over to talk to someone and I've found that to be true when someone comes over to talk to me. If the range does not call a cease fire then I'll wait until the person has put down their firearm.

 

[sox]

I really wish the ranges would offer a preview "how to" or rather "how not to" on their range with their rules. Mandate viewing the thing before going in. On several occasions, I have gone to shoot only to leave without shooting when I spied some yahoo at the counter. I was at the range once when a security guard was there "training" and walking around behind the firing line with her barrel covering anything and anyone. I left, told the clerk and was pissed. It wasn't a simple inconvience, it was potentially my life. Often, the behind the counter help was marginal at best briefly explaining sight picture, etc. with little explanation of safety. What gives?

 

[22Shooter]

What gives SOX....?

Beats me. But with the recent increase in sales to new gun owners after 9/11, it will keep giveing more.

Where I usually shoot, everyone has to take a test before going on the line. It's a fairly comprehensive safety test-NRA first steps class level. You can't fail the test, but the staff strongly encourage no guessing and really does take the time to go over unanswered and incorrect responses with firearms from the rental case as nececssary for visual aids. Comprehension isn't assured, but they use reasonable common sense in judgeing it.

I feel pretty safe shooting there. That doesn't mean I've never been at risk. There was the time some guy at the utility table behind the lanes asked me where the safety was on his SA auto and my habitual "is it loaded before I touch it" check revealed a SA auto had been off safe and ready to go behind me in the hands of a fumbling idiot. And is it just me, or is there something about novice shooters, revolvers, and some perverse desire to put bullets in the ceiling? I've often seen shooters of this type cocking back the hammer with their gripping hand thumb, hammer barely under control, finger still inside the trigger guard, revolver pointed skyward....sigh.

When I first started shooting, I broke the rule about calling a cease fire if I observe an unsafe act. I was ashamed of myself-I might as well have been the muzzle sweeper if I did nothing to keeping it from happening again. Now I explain why something is dangerous and how do to do it safely after discreetly requesting someone stop firing for a minute. If the offense is egregious, the explanation is stern and I leave and alert the staff (happened once in several years). I've only had to do this a few times-like I said, I feel pretty safe where I shoot.

We have driver licenses that "prove" we're qualified to safely operate cars, and we know how well that works. Car wrecks happen. Fatal ones. Unsafe driving is a risk of driving. Unsafe shooting is a risk of shooting. I guess the best we can do is encourage safe range operation and safe shooting at every opportunity, teach courteously to reduce our risk the next time we're in the lane next to that new shooter, and, to use the driving anology, practice "Defensive Shooting."

 

[DanP]

Good points.

The brass cleanup was more related to whether I would piss off the range owners by dumping it in the trash if they wanted them for reloads...

I noticed that at the particular one I go to the most when they sweep they push the empties downrange. My guess is someone will collect at some point in time.

This particular range has been opened forever and is under new ownership now, but I am amazed at what amounts to hundreds of holes in the ceiling, right above the booths... what goes through some people's heads?!?

 

[Quartus]

hundreds of holes in the ceiling, right above the booths... what goes through some people's heads?!?

Uh, do you want to rephrase that question?

 

[mt_goodrich]

When I first started going to the range, I was told to use common sense and common courtesy.

Well....we all know about common sense....there is a whole lot of folks out there without it. Same goes for common courtesy.

The range I go to is laid back for the most part. Not a lot of rules posted everywhere you turn. The important reminders are there. There is nothing posted about picking up your empties, but common courtesy and common sense (plus...I asked the range owner) will tell you to sweep up and try to keep things clean. At this range, all you need to do is sweep the empties forward of the firing line. At the end of the day, they will sweep it all up. Nothing too difficult and I don't mind. I figure for the cheap price of shooting, I don't have a problem.

Got mad two weeks ago at the range. Two guys were blazing away with their empties flying every where. What made me mad is that they never bothered to grab the broom and sweep up. What also made me mad is each time they would empty an ammo box, they would toss it over their shoulder.

I learned long ago not to approach folks like this. I finished up my shooting and let the range owner know about my displeasure. He apologized and promised to speak with the guys.

When I came back a week later, he again apologized for what happened before and let me shoot for free. He didn't have to do that, but it was a nice gesture.

 

[Slabside]

*My favorite outdoor range leaves brass on the ground forever. It's like a brass casing carpet of sorts. Stuff has been down there forever. They have huge brass catching bags hanging down about every 3-4 lanes, and they catch a lot in those but, the rest stays on the ground. There is even a sign that says, "Don't pick up the brass".

*As far as breaks go...I never leave anything of mine at the lane or laying alone by itself anywhere. I take my shooter's bag w/ me. Or, you can lock it up in your car and then, go take your break. Some ranges have equipment lockers to use. Don't forget the issue of liability. Some folks bring their children to the range. Believe it...children will do just about anything when mom and dad aren't looking. The main thing I would foresee would be theft...other folks concentrating, guy picks up your pistol, you're out of luck in a very bad way!

*Rapid Fire...Never had trouble w/ this situation. Of course, I'm not using a "Tac" trigger either.

*Courtesy...I would say to use common sense...however, this really doesn't apply to alot of shooters sometimes. I wait til there is a cease-fire call before engaging in conversation w/ someone. If at range where it's "open-shooting", I'll wait til the individual ceases firing on his own and puts his weapon down. At one range I attend, the accepted practice is to wait until the individual has ceased firing then, to tap him on his shoulder. All in all, what you said is fine.

Best,
Slabside

 

[DanP]

>> to hundreds of holes in the ceiling, right above the booths... what goes through some people's heads?!? <<

Sorry for the unintended play of words!

Captain, thanks for pointing that out... had to re-read what I wrote after seeing your post.

BTW, as an analogy, there is a certain "brotherhood" in even amateur car racing were it'd be fine to leave items such as tools, cameras, etc at one's pit (within reason).

Just wondering if such "sportmanship" applied to a briefcase at the lane.

Although I think that was amply answered by the potential of "kids in the area", at least from a safety factor. Good wake up call for me, thanks.

 

[coonan357]

My range rules , I pick up my brass before I leave(why do I come home with more brass then when I left home???) , If I am shooting a revolver I use A 5 gallon bucket as my range bag for the day (its handy, ammo on bottom guns and equip on top and when a lid is on it noone knows it a range bag and can double as a chair when tired ) a for range etiquette, unless the person is not engaged with what they are doing ,then I might talk to them , otherwise I leave them alone . as for sweeping the floor at the range this is a no no it stirs up the lead dust on the floor . most ranges now have hepa vacs for that . what I hate is when someone leaves a used target on the floor or in the rack all the way out , as for the saftey act , stop and report it immediately to the range officers or owners it's no fun getting shot ! as for leaving the pistol unattended , I ussually have a partner watch it at the bench or lock it up .

 

[2kiddad]

I shoot at an 18 lane indoor range and here is how it is there:

1) All brass is dumped on the floor. Brooms are in each 6 lane bay to sweep them under the bench. About once per month, the range cleans the brass out completely. If you bring it, you can take it home, but, brass harvesting is highly frowned upon.

2) If you need to leave the firing line for any reason other than checking out, you just leave your stuff at the bench. They ask that you notify the range officer when leaving your lane temporarily. I guess you could just pack everything up if you had to make a head call, but...I've never had any problems.

3) I think this is pretty much defined by the range officer of the local range you frequent.At my rnage, rapid fire is defined as more than 3 consecutive rapid shots in less than 1 second. Double taps are permitted.

4) Common courtesy is pretty much the rule where I shoot. I think billiards rules are a pretty good guideline.

 

[Eric Larsen]

I shoot at 3 indoor ranges and 3 outdoor ranges...the rules are different in all of them...the indoors are pretty close for consistancy. The outdoor ranges all have range officers except one...its pretty much self sufficient and really has the least trouble. More experienced shooters go there and respect each others space and knowledge....I am learning from all of them.
The indoor ranges dont have any rules for rapid fire...blast away.
Some will let you take your brass some wont....at one of the outdoor ranges they wont let you touch it....pretty stupid.

Where ever I go...there are idiots. Looking into the muzzle..."duh, is it loaded or not?", pointing it at people while not even looking or knowing what they are doing, people who have never shot before and rent guns...at least they really dont know and should be instructed by the range officials. I tell people who point the muzzle at me....."please, dont do that!" Mostly they look at me stupidly and go about their business.

Last week, I was at my fav. indoor range and after repeatedly asking and then telling a "gentleman" not to point his gun at me
, I told him to bring Vaseline with him next time! He sneered at me and asked "why". I told him that luckily I was just going to tell the officials that he was an idiot and had no business shooting a gun, let alone being around them. "The next guy who you point the thing at, will likely shove the thing up your *ss and the Vaseline is so it doesnt hurt as bad"......I left and told the range officials about his behaviors and practices....he was asked to leave the range and not return. The good guys win sometimes....

Shoot well