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Problems with Legal & Political

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ahenry

New member
I’ve noticed that there are a ton of posts in L&P by new members (as in only a week or two of membership). Without getting into one side or the other or the merits of various statements posted by those members, in my opinion, the overall tone of the forum has diminished by virtue of their posts. In the interest of “more signal less noise” and maintaining the high standards TFL has striven to project, is there something that could be done about this? I’ll avoid the troll label, or mentioning specific members, but I think that what I’ve seen recently treads perilously close to trolling. I’m sure various moderators are aware of what types of posts I’m referring to.

In the interest of not presenting a problem without also offering some solutions, I’ve thought of a couple of options.

  • Could the L&P forum posting privileges be limited only to members with a certain amount of membership time?
  • Or, could posting privileges be limited to only members with a certain number of posts in other sections of TFL?

I’m not as crazy about the latter option, but anything would be an improvement. As any search of my posts will show, I'm a huge fan of L&P. Hundreds of valuable discussions have occurred there, and will continue to occur. Lately however, wading through all the baloney (or trolling if you want to label it that way) is making L&P less than enjoyable. Am I alone in this view?
 
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buzz_knox

New member
How about a third option?

Recognize that gun owners just got put into an absolute crappy situation less than a week ago, that emotions are high, and calm things down in individual threads until such time as the post-election blues fade? Better yet, use the energy in those threads and that disappointment (or the anger that results from peopling trolling on behalf of Dems) to good use by motivating people to work for the RKBA?

The only difference between this election cycle and others is that a lot of people got very scared for the first time in years. So, they started searching out gun forums to try and see if there's anyone out there willing to help. This is actually a great opportunity for the RKBA, we just need to seize it.
 
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ahenry

New member
Those are good points, but I’m not referring to the posts since the election. Those posts are just the proverbial straw.
 
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Any .45

New member
Think about what your saying AHENRY, I don't mean to disrespect but, you sound just like our politicians. Your saying that TFL should limit the L&P forum to only those members that have time with TFL or have a certain amount of posts. Thats like saying, well only citizens that live in a certain area should own guns, or only people who served in the military should own guns. If thats the case how are others supposed to learn. Instead of limiting them, guide them in the right direction without insulting their intelligence, let them know what issues we're looking to talk about and what issues TFLers really don't like to discuss, you've been around a while and have helped a few of us with your knowledge, so help the newbees. I for one have never posted a thread on the L&P, for my own reasons but I do like to read what other people have to say about whats going on in our countries politics. But your way of dealing with the situation isn't the way we on TFL should deal with issues, if it comes to that then were no different than the Anti'sand their politicians. On TFL we try to uphold the freedom of speech policy. Just my .02. Thank you and my apologies if I offended you.:)
 
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buzz_knox

New member
Those are good points, but I’m not referring to the posts since the election. Those posts are just the proverbial straw.
Click to expand...

Outside of the elections, nothing much has really changed since this place got started. Things go in cycles and we may be at the top of one, but discussions of mall ninjas, mutant ninja zombie bears, and the adventures of GunKid have been with us since day one. People have declared what the Constitution says based on their reading of it one day versus 200 years of jurisprudence or even the authors' own works, since day one.

I think a lot of people tend to look at the early days of boards with a bit of the "good old days" view. Things aren't really that different than they were.
 
A

ahenry

New member
Any .45,

First, no disrespect taken. However, TFL is a private board. There is a huge difference between a private entity restricting membership privileges and the gov’t doing the same. What is unacceptable for the gov’t is perfectly fair and reasonable for a private organization such as TFL. Just as the Boy Scouts are well within their rights to limit privileges to members, or members of a certain rank, TFL would be perfectly able to do the same. The merits of doing so are debatable, but in the interest of maintaining the high standards TFL stands for, I don’t think it is unreasonable to require a member establish their legitimacy before posting in certain areas.
 
T

tyme

Administrator
* Could the L&P forum posting privileges be limited only to members with a certain amount of membership time?
* Or, could posting privileges be limited to only members with a certain number of posts in other sections of TFL?
Click to expand...
Yes, and yes.
 
A

ahenry

New member
buzz_knox,

Outside of the elections, nothing much has really changed since this place got started. Things go in cycles and we may be at the top of one, but discussions of mall ninjas, mutant ninja zombie bears, and the adventures of GunKid have been with us since day one. People have declared what the Constitution says based on their reading of it one day versus 200 years of jurisprudence or even the authors' own works, since day one.
Click to expand...
That is entirely possible, but as a test to see if I was off base in my view or not I went into L&P, sorted all threads for the past year in ascending order and looked at the locked ones (probably should have done that before I opened this thread). Going through the first 15 pages, which got up to almost the end of Feb ’06, the overwhelming number of locked threads (like 95% - 98%) were locked for normal reasons; degrading into personal attacks, duplicate thread, thread running its course, etc, with the occasional off topic thread. Moreover there were only a small handful of locked threads per page (excluding worthwhile threads running their course or turning into personal attacks). Looking at the more recent months, there are many more locked threads. And a goodly number of those locked threads are locked for more “trolling” type reasons (off topic, flaming from the get-go, etc). You could be right that this is just a “cycle”, I just don’t see it as such, and I certainly don't think it's solely due to the election results. Those threads are easy to spot and easy to deal with.
 
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ahenry

New member
Tyme,
Is that just a technical answer as to the capabilities of the forum software? If so, my questions might be more properly worded as “should” instead of “can”.

Obviously this is a complaint thread. I do want to publicly state however, that I’m not complaining about the sub-forum as a whole. I love L&P. I really enjoy reading the firearms sections, although I have very little to contribute. L&P, however, is my favorite section of the entire board. It is a section of TFL that does a great job of allowing gun owners the ability to discuss firearms related laws and how politics relates to them, as well as general liberties. Obviously, nothing I just said is news to you, but I don’t want to give the wrong impression. Maybe most of this is a result of TFL’s popularity? I’m pleasantly surprised how often TFL pops up as a search result. I don’t recall it happening as often in the past as it does now.
 
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marlboroman84

New member
I'm with AHenry on this one. I've seen way to many posters with a 1 or 2 post count come in to L&P (as well as other parts of the forum) and start really insane topics. Then, when the members or mods chastise them they freak out and insult everyone that doesn't agree with them.

I'd say this, let them post in L&P anytime, but if they repeatedly start asinine threads or insult members, ban them and be done with it.

My new sig line... BRING BACK THE SCYTHE!
 
4

45RackerTracker

New member
Yes, let's ban.:rolleyes: That's the democratic approach. Just one problem, this is not a democracy and forum members at large, do not make policy. Someone who is determined to troll or flame can come back with a new user name after flushing their computer of cookies and the like or with a different computer and you can't stop them. I think there is a logical and systemic way to handle these types: call them out with facts, they usually high tail it, with their tails between their legs.:D
 
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ahenry

New member
Yes, let's ban. That's the democratic approach. Just one problem, this is not a democracy and forum members at large, do not make policy.
Click to expand...
You’re right. Hence the whole point of this thread. To voice my opinion on this topic and solicit the opinion of both members and moderators.
 
P

Pointer

New member
ahenry

Maybe we could have a vote on each member to see if there are enough people to get someone designated as a "troll" and leave a red dot by his "name" for a minimum of... :rolleyes:

Well, sorta like a Scarlet Letter. :D

Let me know if you think I'm one of those "troll" types and I will voluntarily step aside... ;) :D

Seriously... I agree that many of the noobies are over-anxious to post and often don't even read the thread before posting...

Many more read, and don't understand, but they post anyway...:barf:
I do so love humility...
in the other guy... ;)
 
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marlboroman84

New member
45rackertracker have you ever read Erick Gelhaus' sticky in Tactics and Training? It's called The pendulum and the scythe. One of the best things ever stickied IMHO.

Banning may not always work, but if you can't play by the rules get off the playground. Half the newer members here lately don't even have enough common decency to show some respect to the moderators. It's their world, we're just posting in it. I have had disagreements with some of the mods sure, but we always come to a mutual,decent agreement. We don't call each other names or insult. It should stay like that.
 
4

45RackerTracker

New member
MarlboroMan

That is a great post and I agree that the T&T should remain factual and serious. After all it is about serious business. Life or the preserving of a life while in the process the taking of another, should not be taken lightly. Also the caliber of information, disseminated from TFL should remain high. This means that if the seed must be culled from the chaff, then by all means necessary, the staff should ensure that it is. ;)
 
M

marlboroman84

New member
45RackerTracker

Agreed. I think there is alot of fun to be had in firearms ownership. Heck, who doesn't love punching holes in milk jugs and watermelons on a saturday afternoon in the country?

I break firearms and firearms owners into 3 basic groups.

1. The casual firearm and owner.

This is the group that owns a few guns, may even collect, but have no real interest in concealed carry, defense planning, tactics, etc. They enjoy shooting and might even read the occasional gun mag, but aren't hardcore.
This group generally laughs at defense scenario threads

2. The general firearm owner.

Owns a few to several firearms, has a CCW (or at least thinks about getting one, or would if they could), takes training courses, drills at the range, and have plans for what they would do if. Most are responsible and serious when it comes to safety, practice, and the legal and political aspects of having and using a firearm.
The majority of this group do not take lightly the matters of CCW or political issues, but tend to be realistic and not activist in their thinking. This I'd wager sums up the majority of TFL members.

3. The activist gun owner.
This is the type of gun owner most of us try to seperate ourselves from.
This is the person that is the liberal stereotype gun owner. Very activist in their views on gun ownership and often not in a good way. They live for SHTF type scenarios and think that anyone "unprepared" as they see it, is a fool and will not hesitate to tell you so. They are the black eye to the majority of firearms owners.
This group is a minority, but it takes only a few to give all of us a bad name.

This is all just my opinion and it could have been much longer to incorporate everything into the sub-groups, but I think you all see what I'm saying.
 
A

ahenry

New member
Mods,

Any input? Tyme indicated such moves are possible, but there hasn’t been any other moderator input...
 
M

Mike Irwin

Staff
My suggestion is that you avoid threads by newbies, and let the moderators deal with newbies who cause disfunction.

Problem solved.
 
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