Private Ryan

[James K]

Just saw "Saving Private Ryan" and did not find it very realistic even though some scenes were gory enough. Some thoughts.

The first thing that struck me is that those guys are old! Most are 35-40 or more. Combat troops in WWII were late teens, early 20s. Company grade officers were early to mid-20s; field grade late 20s to mid-30s.

The whole business was silly. If the War Department wanted to get word to Ryan's commanding officer, they would have sent it by normal commo channels, not with a Ranger squad commanded by a Captain. (Squad leaders were buck sergeants.)

Third, they send the poor slob off without the most basic and necessary piece of info, Ryan's serial number. No identification of a GI was complete without a serial number. (I can still remember mine, and it has been almost 43 years.) And they don't give him written orders. Why should his CO release him to some guy who walks up and says he should go home? Nonsense.

Fourth, he wasn't Private Ryan at all. He was a PFC and no one would have called him private unless it was an officer or NCO directly addressing him.

Then the movie-mandatory deep philosophical discussions in loud voices while watching for Germans. Were Germans supposed to be deaf?

All in all, a silly premise and a silly movie, though not as bad as some. Would not have been worth $9.00; not sure it was worth watching free.

Jim

 

[cornered rat]

By and large, it had decent gun handling and pretty special effects. The plot had more holes in it than a Jeep caught in the open by an MG42.

"Cross of Iron" was one war movie I liked a lot. Better story AND nice effects. "Saving PFC Ryan" was, IMO, an attempt to make a "nice" movie about war...an effort doomed to failure.

 

[house]

But it was a good movie/ Shows how war is like. sorry for all the good men we lost.

 

[stdalire]

I just appreciate, how the "top brass" gave importance to a Private or PFC. Perhaps, the War Department feel pity to the mother as she had lost 2 sons already in the war.

Good points I got from it, is a dedication to one's service of country as the Capt is a former teacher. And the "Palabra de Honor" of P. Ryan of keep visiting Capt remains.

And most of it, the 1911 play a role thereat.

Thanks

 

[RWK]

Any who have been in combat or served as long-term career leaders will recognize a significant theme in Saving Private Ryan: Was I worthy of the sacrifice made by others, sometimes so I could live?

Whether in a training accident or in combat, we have all had friends killed, literally in the prime of their youth. Moreover, we have all asked "why him and not me?". In Ryan's case, he wonders if he lived his entire adult life in a manner commensurate with the sacrifices made to rescue him. IMHO, that is an honest, meaningful theme for a movie.

This said, I agree with the previous posters re the technical deficiencies throughout the movie.

 

[Johnny Got His Gun.1]

I am twenty-five. I am not a veteran. My brother, though, was a Marine for six years. Two men with whom I instruct tae kwon do (one my master instructor, the other an assistant instructor)served in Vietnam. These individuals and others performed a service, despite the threat, to their country. I have much respect for them and others.

That said, war movies have been favorites of mine. I enjoy reading novels or nonfiction related to the military. However, I have grown to dislike romanticized notions of war which are perpetuated in various media. _Saving Private Ryan_ did not glorify war. From my understanding of history, the movie treated its broad topic--war--realistically (it is the only movie I have wanted to walk out of due to graphic violence). stadalire and RWK, I agree with the two of you on the thematic issue and could care less about the technical flaws of the plot.

Bottom line: When my wife and I had seen the movie and were driving home, I turned to her and said, "That's why we're not speaking German. That's why I'm an English teacher and not teaching German grammar."

To any veterans on this BB, thank you for helping maintain the freedom for me to live the life I'm able to live. I don't know what true sacrifice is, but _Saving Private Ryan_ was a apt reminder of what that notion entails.

 

[Oatka]

Re: the young ages of WWII troops. I was reading Stephen Ambrose's "Citizen Soldiers" and his D-Day books. Out of all the Hell these guys told about, the one that really brought it home to me was what a couple of them said as their landing boat approached the beach -- "Geez, if I was home, I'd be graduating High School now".

Good books to read this Nov. 11th.

 

[Gale McMillan]

It always amazes me that Holywood can't find a technical adviser who has some knowledge about the art of war and use of weapons but in reality war is 95% drudgery and 5% pure terror and would make for a very boring movie if they told it like it was. War is hell and any young man who can go through it is truly a hero! The first poster was spot on with his observation and to add one of my own was the fraternization between the ranks. In a service where the officers even had their own latrines you would never see the bickering and socializing with the enlisted troops. The most true thing about the movie is when he said that bitching always goes up hill and never down.

 

[NuclearGlock]

I am with you Jim. Good battle scenes, but a lousy plot. It could have been better.

 

[cornered rat]

I talked to a Korean vet who said that he was drafted and spent a yer over there. In his view, draftees were older, more mature, stronger and sometimes even better trained than younger career soldiers...and that lead them to greater hopes of survival and high esprit de corps (sp?). I asked if he resented the draft. "No, my older friends went through WW2...and we we a bit brainwashed, too."

I think that the best pemise of a movie about war (the premise only, as the acting/filming/etc. were pretty bad) was Galipoli...or All Quiet on the Western Front...

Trouble is, no war movie will come even close to showing the real thing and that means ignorant (if possibly well-meaning) "compassionates" will keep on arguing for military intervention everywhere.

I would like, BTW, recommend some reading on the topic...Irwin Shaw's WW2 short stories (Act of Faith, Passion of Lance Corporal Hawkings, etc.) and novel Young Lions (not to be confused with the movie). Willie Heinrich's Cross of Iron, while less fun than the movie, is far more realistic about the mess, too.


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Cornered Rat
http://dd-b.net/RKBA RKBA posters
http://dd-b.net/olegv Portrait, nature photos

 

[Scaramanga]

Interesting points, all. But remember, ITS JUST A MOVIE! Real life would probably be not as exciting.

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Strength does not come from physical capacity.
It comes from an indomitable will. -- Mahatma Gandhi

 

[legacy38]

I think the movie made several good points.

It brought home the fact that despite the huge numbers of troops in a war there are still personal stories and individuals.

There are heroes, and there are cowards.

It also showed that WWII wasn't a CNN war like the Gulf. There weren't any smart bombs and guided missles. WWII was fought by foot soldiers engaged in close quarters combat.

I've seen interviews of WWII vets who talked of battles in towns that were fought from building to building and even room to room.

My grandfather was in Italy. He was over there fighting, watching friends die, killing men, and the whole time he knew that one of his daughters (my aunt) was back home suffering from a kidney disease. He made it home a month before she died. Two of his brothers were with Patton's rampage across Germany. One of the brothers was awarded the Bronze Star for heroism only to be killed on his next mission. The other was in a tank unit. Thirteen members of the unit were from my grandfather's/uncle's hometown. Of the 13, my uncle is the only one who made it home. On one occasion, he saw 6 of them in a jeep get hit by a shell. All 6 were killed.

Despite all of the errors in the film, I think that it should still be appreciated for its theme. Who watched that movie and wasn't moved by the scene in which the soldier and the German were fighting hand to hand in the room? I know that I almost lost it when the German slowly pushed the knife into the soldier's chest. I was also furious that the coward was cringeing outside and didn't come to help.

I always pick on my wife for getting so wrapped up in movies. I have to admit that I was totally enthralled in this one, and evrytime I watch it, it has an even greater effect on me.

I think that the movie was the most compelling movie that I have ever seen. When I watch it, I don't see Tom Hanks and company, I see my grandfather and great uncles.

 

[Gale McMillan]

Cornered rat: I can speak with some authority about the Korean war. It was the retreads ( reserves) who added the knowledge and stability to the units. These were the guys who had walked all over Europe and had went home to raise a family and stayed in the reserves. The draftees were 18 and 19 year old kids and most of the regulars were either still wet behind the ears or were old timers who had seen a lot of combat. The one big difference in the two groups were the kids would try to do any thing they were ordered to do and the old timers would think it over and if it didn't make sense they would find another way. We lost a hell of a lot of fine young men in that one!

 

[K80Geoff]

I have to agree with RWK's comments above. To me the scenes that made the movie special were the first and last scenes of the movie.

As to the technical deficiencies, well that is a matter of conjecture. This was D day, the airborne troops of Ryan's unit were scattered all over France and there was little unit cohesion and almost no chain of command. As to troops arguing with officers I can speak of personal experience as a former Officer. In situations of high stress and danger soldiers can and will question their superiors, and occasionally will disobey orders. As an Officer Candidate I was trained how to handle situations like this with special role playing exercises using experienced NCOs acting as unruly or mutinous soldiers. A good officer will listen to his men, often they will have more experience or a better idea. A fool will try to use his rank to demand blind obedience, often getting himself killed. The Captain protrayed in Pvt Ryan acted exceptionally well under the circumstances, however he always maintained his position as leader.

Another recent movie, The Thin Red Line, had very realistic combat scenes, more so than Pvt Ryan. But the story was butchered by the director and writers who destroyed one of the great american novels.

My $.02 as usual.

Geoff Ross

 

[James K]

Thanks for all the input. Remember, it was just a movie. Frankly, I doubt that the army would go to that length to pull one guy out of the line for that reason. Many families lost all their sons, and it was unfortunate, but no one pulled strings to get them out. The five Sullivan brothers joined the Navy and asked to serve together; all went down with their ship.

Of course, some people were able to pull strings and make deals to keep out of the war, or to keep their sons out, but that was usually done at home before draft time. Such things were considered beneath contempt at that time and the beneficiary of the effort was considered a coward and not spoken to by decent people. Today, those who dodged the draft by using political influence are honored and elected to the highest offices.

Times have changed.

Jim

 

[Will Beararms]

The saddest part of PVT. Ryan is that if you went to see it on the big screen, you helped an elite socialist generate more money to donate to HCI,the DNC,Clinton and other freedom-robbing causes. I am guilty of doing just that. My hope is that I will not be blinded in the future when individuals like Spielberg use our emotions to line their wallets. If your dead set on a meaningful WWII experience, go see a Veteran in a nursing home who has been forgotten by his or her family. Take a Veteran out for a meal or give one a call on November 11th and thank them for the freedoms we enjoy and you are enjoying as you read this.

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."

 

[4V50 Gary]

Per se, not all five Sullivans drowned when their ship, the light AA cruiser Atlanta went down. Two actually survived, but foundered after being afloat for several days.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

 

[stdalire]

There are things we cannot really fathomed up in the military. I am not a regular military man but to my mind I know so much and more about military works and itelligence works than to some of the military people.

Gale mentioned about fraternization between the ranks, thats true because of "Year Classes" like belong to Class 99 or Class 2000. Of course there is really a big gap among officers and enlisted men about socialization, but that is the name of the game, where the same peer group will get together. Thats better than politics.

Many knows too, that there were times the foot soldiers will be just used as pawn.

The same thing to any rebel forces, many were used and the leaders are just relaxing in 5 stars hotels. We are in a world of competition thus sometimes human values were lost.

It was said by many knowledgeable sources that during WWI & WWII, there was a well known company who made arms for both Axis and the Alied forces (disregarding their nationality and not being loyal to their own country but loyal only to their business profit) this is still a famous defense company today. So, all is business. That is why, we should not just be carried of what we see and what we hear but we do things we think we can afford to do so.

Mascom and Journalism profession knows how to stir or agitate the heart and mind of the people.

Thanks




[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited November 08, 1999).]

 

[RacerX]

I thought that "Saving Private Ryan" was an excellent film. Sure, it depicted some things incorrectly (P-51 tank busters?) but overall it is hard to top.

Another favorite of mine is "Stalingrad", though I believe it is only available in German with English subtitles. If the sight of frostbite does not bother you, I'd recommend giving that one a look. Look for it in the "Foreign Films" section at your local video store. I believe the same director that made "Das Boot" also directed "Stalingrad". Watch it, and understand why Col. Klink would do anything to avoid the Russian Front! ;-)

 

[BenDover]

I thought it was a Damm good movie! Did you know the VA had to open up 24 hour hot lines to help all the WWII and other war combat troops cope with flash backs and memories. You must remember that during that time 1941-1945 everyone elisted 18-40 year olds and the old salts were believable and think the special effects could not be improved. I spent time in the Marines and still in the Navy for 4 more months, until retirment, so I sort of know how military people interact. These guys were regular Army. Steve