PRIMERS, I need to know more.

[SKULLANDCROSSBONES65]

G'day.
I often see various primer sizes like small pistol large rifle Magnum etc.
Is there a list that shows what the different ones are?
If I'm loading a pistol caliber to be used in a rifle should I use rifle primers?
My reloading manual lists a make and model number (for the primer) but this means so little to me. I don't want to make assumptions. I know the good folk at Sierra would be able to keep me on the straight and narrow, but I thought I might find other data here at TFL.

 

[Hammonje]

Each case has the primer pocket to house a specific primer. There are large and small rifle and pistol primers as well as magnum primers. A specific caliber catridge will have a specific primer associated with it.

It's just that simple.

 

[drail]

Rifle primers should not be used in pistol calibers. Standard pistol primers are all you need for pistol cartridges. If a load is worked up with standard primers do not substitute a magnum primer without reducing the charge and working back up. Wear safety glasses when using or filling any primer feeding device on a press. Do not position an electric light directly over a tube filled with primers on a progressive press. Federal primers are the softest and CCI are generally the hardest primers. In other words a gun that will reliably fire Federals may not pop a CCI primer 100% of the time. You do not have to use the brand of primer specified in your manual but use the same type.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"If I'm loading a pistol caliber to be used in a rifle should I use rifle primers?"

Generally yes.

These days you really only need to go to magnum pistol primers with the really large cartridges with heavy charges of slow burning powder.

WW 296 in .44 Magnum can be one application. Absolutely necessary? No, not really, many people report excellent results with standard pistol primers with that combination.

Start with standard pistol and go from there. Same with rifle.

 

[SKULLANDCROSSBONES65]

G'day.What I'm looking for is a list that will tell me what type (size) an 'XYZ123' is or if I have ABC456 they are good to use (or not). I have limited access to supplies so items that have multiple use are an advantage. e.g. one powder for .222 & .270, Primers for .270 and .303 etc.
My manual does not tell me what size the primers are, just the make and model of what was used in their test.

A specific caliber catridge will have a specific primer associated with it.

Various primer manufacturers produce primers for specific caliber cartridges. and several caliber and cartridges will use the same primer.

Hammonje I don't think you understood my question, but I do appreciate you trying to help. I'm not after a spacific primer for a given cartridge as that is what is listed in my manual.
I can look up Powder burn charts and find powders that are similar, is there a list like that for primers?

 

[SKULLANDCROSSBONES65]

G'day Mike Irwin.
WW 296 in .44 Magnum is what I'm looking into at the moment.

It's not for me. A friend has just got it and I want to do my research before I tell her the wrong information.

 

[SKULLANDCROSSBONES65]

G'day. Got a PM with some great data.
Here is what I was looking for.
Feel free to add any additional information.



PRIMERS - A REFERENCE GUIDE

Small Handgun Standard

CCI 500
Federal 100 - Has a thinner cup
Magtech PR-SP
Magtech PR-SPC - Lead-free "Clean Range" primer for indoor ranges etc.
Remington 1 ½
Winchester WSP
Wolf Small Pistol SP - brass cup

Small Handgun Magnum

CCI 550
Federal 200
Magtech PR-SPM
Remington 5 ½
Winchester WSPM
Wolf Small Pistol Magnum SPM - brass cup

Large Handgun Standard

CCI 300
Federal 150 - Has a thinner cup
Magtech PR-LP
Remington 2 ½
Winchester WLP
Wolf Large Pistol LP - brass cup

Large Handgun Magnum

CCI 350
Federal 155
Wolf Large Pistol Magnum LPM - brass cup

Small Rifle Standard

CCI 400 -thin cup, not recommended for AR15 use by CCI/Speer. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine.
CCI BR4 - match primer with a thicker cup than the CCI 400.
Federal 205 - Mil-Spec cup thickness according to Federal - okay for 5.56mm.
Federal 205M - same as the 205 but the match version.
Magtech PR-SR - .025" cup thickness (not much feedback yet on this new primer as to AR15 suitability but with the same cup thickness as the Rem 7 1/2 it looks good so far)
Remington 6 ½ - thin cup, best for lower pressure rounds like the .22 Hornet, not the .223 Rem. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine.
Winchester WSR - some piercing issues noted when changed from silver to brass cup. Most say they are good to go.
Wolf Small Rifle SR - soft, sensitive copper cup, not recommended for AR15/military rifle use or high pressure rounds.

Small Rifle Magnum

CCI 450 - same thicker cup as the BR4 and #41.
CCI #41 - commercial version of the fully-qualified DOD primer for use in U.S. military ammo. With this primer there is more 'distance' between the tip of the anvil and the bottom of the cup than with other CCI SR primers.
Remington 7 ½ BR - A match or "bench rest" primer. Some believe that it is not a true magnum primer in brisance, but actually a 'standard' despite it's classification.
Wolf Small Rifle Magnum SRM - hard, less sensitive brass cup intended for AR15/military rifle and high pressure rounds.
Wolf Small Rifle 223 SR223 - "This is the newest primer available in the Wolf line. It is ever so slightly hotter than the small rifle magnum primer and it comes with a brass colored thick cup. This primer can be used in place of the SRM primer or used when a different powder is used that is hard to ignite."

Large Rifle Standard

CCI 200 - mild in brisance. Hard enough for use in semi-automatics.
CCI BR2 - same as the 200 but the match version. Hard enough for use in semi-automatics.
Federal 210 - medium brisance between CCI/Remington & Winchester. Do not use in semi-automatics.
Federal 210M - match version of the above primer. Do not use in semi-automatics.
Magtech PR-LR
Remington 9 ½ - mild in brisance.
Winchester WLR - the hottest standard primer. Hard enough for use in semi-automatics.
Wolf Large Rifle LR - all brass - Used by noted match shooter David Tubbs who says: "Be sure they are seated into the case - if not they can be hard to ignite. Russian primers use a different sinoxide compound (closer to the European type), which, in my testing, consistently delivers better extreme spreads over Federal..." Hard enough for use in semi-automatics.

Large Rifle Magnum

CCI 250
CCI #34 - commercial version of the fully-qualified DOD primer for use in U.S. military ammo.
Federal 215 - original magnum primer
Remington 9 ½ M - mildest magnum primer.
Winchester WLRM
Wolf Large Rifle Magnum LRM - all brass

50 BMG

CCI #35 - commercial version of the fully-qualified DOD primer for use in U.S. military ammo.

Primers recommended for use in .223 Rem/5.56 semiautomatic rifle loads:

CCI #41, 450, BR4 (#41 & 450 good with ball powder)
Federal 205, 205M
Remington 7 1/2 BR (good with ball powder)
Winchester WSR (good with ball powder)
Wolf SRM (good with ball powder)
Wolf SR223 (hotter than SRM - great with ball powder)

Primers recommended for use in .308 Win/7.62x51/7.62x39 semiautomatic rifle loads:

CCI #34, 200, BR2, CCI 250
Winchester WLR, WLRM (good with ball powder)
Wolf LR

 

[Mike Irwin]

"G'day Mike Irwin.
WW 296 in .44 Magnum is what I'm looking into at the moment.

It's not for me. A friend has just got it and I want to do my research before I tell her the wrong information."


Start with standard primers, but remember -- with 296 a good, solid crimp is mandatory no matter what the primer.

If you have a crimp that is too loose, it won't matter if you have a magnum primer or not, you'll still have ignition issues.

 

[Hammonje]

Nice reference. Are you sure CCI #41 and #34 are magnum primers???? I get the same point of impact with these as with regular primers. Just has a hardened cup to prevent slamfirm in M1 and M14.

At least that's what I thought...I could be wrong. I'll call CCI and find out and report back.

They are considered magnum primers...still got the same point of impact with the exact same charge compared to Wolf LR primers and CCI#34 in my NM M1A.

Thanks again for the reference. Do you have this as a Word document or pdf???? If you do please send them to me. jason.hammonds[at]emory.edu

 

[res45]

SKULLANDCROSSBONES65 you can look on the Hodgdon's web site for load data as far as powder and bullet weight. If you look at a given bullet weight you will notice that W296 and H110 has the same exact data.

That because W296 and H110 are the same powder,made by the same company both names owned by Hodgdon's, just sold under different brand names. So if you can't find W296 you can use the H110.

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

Example from the site
240 GR. NOS JHP Winchester 296 .429" 1.600" 23.0 1413 25,200 CUP 24.0 1522 36,200 CUP
240 GR. NOS JHP Hodgdon H110 .429" 1.600" 23.0 1413 25,200 CUP 24.0 1522 36,200 CUP

Nice reference. Are you sure CCI #41 and #34 are magnum primers???? I get the same point of impact with these as with regular primers. Just has a hardened cup to prevent slamfire in M1 and M14.

Hammonje CCI rates the Mil-Spec #34 and #41 primers as magnum primers,I use the #34's in my SKS rifles but i don't load to MAX anyways but close with no problems. I called CCI to confirm it and it's on the web site also. The main difference between the two Mil-Spec primer vs. standard primers is the anvil in the cup it's shaped differently and not set quit as deep in the cup as a standard primer plus there harder so it can take the firing pin strike from free floating firing pins without going off,of course if you you have a high primer all bets are off even with the Mil-Spec primers. Other issues can case slamfires also soft primers are just one of the issues.

 

[Blue]

Cross Reference List

See if this helps some.

http://www.handloads.net/misc/primers.asp

 

[Blue]

Another useful site

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php

 

[Blue]

One more site

http://www.chuckhawks.com/primers.htm

 

[Jim243]

Blue it's nice of you to try to help. I believe he has the data, but I am not sure that we can help him since what he can buy is not necessarly what we can buy and use. I do know that powder is listed differently overseas than it is here. I am not sure about primers. It would be nice to know if Winchester SP is the same there as here.

Jim

 

[SKULLANDCROSSBONES65]

G'day. Blue the Cross Reference List is also what I was looking for

The second link has good technical data from the quick glance I had.

The article by chuckhawks looks to be informative as usual. Just a lot more detail then I was looking for.

Jim243

I am not sure that we can help him since what he can buy is not necessarly what we can buy and use. I do know that powder is listed differently overseas than it is here.

It all helps. Most powder here is ADI witch gets sold in the USA under the Hodgdon label. I have a cross reference list if people need (want) it. I only have one firearms dealer in my area so choice is limited. I could probably get most of what is available in the US if I throw enough $ at it.

Hammonje I'll send through the article.

 

[dmazur]

More "blather" about primers -

Large rifle primers are deeper than large pistol primers and generally will result in high primers if used in pistol cartridges such as .44 Magnum. Small rifle primers are the same depth as small pistol primers, I believe.

Substituting pistol for rifle is generally inadvisable (even if they are the same depth) because the pistol primer is thinner material and may not handle rifle pressures. Pierced primers can be the result. In the case of large pistol primers in large rifle cases, the primer may move forward rather than fire when struck by the firing pin, OR if it was seated all the way, the firing pin may not reach the primer properly.

Substituting small rifle for small pistol is generally inadvisable because pistol firing pin impact is generally less than rifle and poor ignition can be the result.

 

[Jim243]

S&CB

That is helpful, Thanks

Jim

 

[Cult .44]

"If I'm loading a pistol caliber to be used in a rifle should I use rifle primers?"

Generally yes.

I worry that this could be misconstrued to suggest that it would be okay to use, say, large rifle primers in a .44 magnum case if you happened to be shooting the round from a rifle chambered for that cartridge.

With .44 mag cases, use only large pistol or large pistol magnum primers. This is true for all guns chambered in that caliber, handguns or rifles.

 

[SKULLANDCROSSBONES65]

G'day.

"If I'm loading a pistol caliber to be used in a rifle should I use rifle primers?"

Generally yes.
................................................................................................................
I worry that this could be misconstrued to suggest that it would be okay to use, say, large rifle primers in a .44 magnum case if you happened to be shooting the round from a rifle chambered for that cartridge.

As noted it my OP, I don't want to make assumptions. That is one of the reasons I want to be able to compare primer types.

It looks like a good rule of thumb for primer selection would be, "Use the primer type that the cartridge case was intended for."