Primer-only Blanks?

[Old Gaffer]

Greetings All,

I'm the unofficial "weapons consultant" for a local theater company, and in about a year, we're producing the play "The Assassins". To cut to the chase, I have to have several different kinds of guns shooting; some revolvers in .22 and .32, a 1911 .45, a rifle (probably use a Mosin Nagant instead of the Carcano because I already have one) , and a .44 derringer.

My thought is to unload some factory ammo, remove the bullet, dump out the powder, and just shoot the primer.

This is going to be in a SMALL theater (seats about 75) and I'm very uncomfortable shooting even blanks inside such a small room. At one point all the guns get fired TOWARDS the audience, and this scares the bejeezus out of me. I WILL have to do some serious experimenting to find out just what, if anything leaves the end of a barrel with just a primer shot, and what I can do to trap all of it.

Does anyone have any thoughts, ideas, or experience to share. Right now I have far more time to do experiments than money to go truly "Hollywood" whit special effects. I have a C&R License to I can get historically accurate guns - or close enough for theater.

All the best,
Rob

 

[Scorch]

First rule- Never point a firearm at something (or someone) you don't want to shoot, never shoot at something (or someone) you don't intend to kill. If I were in the audience and you pointed a pistol at me, I do believe I would speak up.

A primer will sound like a mild 22 blank going off. In a large theater, it may be almost inaudible. And you should probably stick to .22 revolvers with blanks for the shooting scenes, because a 45 will not cycle with a primer, although it can be made to cycle with a blank.

 

[Old Gaffer]

First rule- Never point a firearm at something (or someone) you don't want to shoot, never shoot at something (or someone) you don't intend to kill. If I were in the audience and you pointed a pistol at me, I do believe I would speak up.

That was my first concern - someone having a coronary because someone in the cast didn't keep the muzzle pointed at the designated "target" (that is, not at anyone). Then there's the associated concern of someone in the audience getting acught up in themoment anf firing back.

A primer will sound like a mild 22 blank going off. In a large theater, it may be almost inaudible. And you should probably stick to .22 revolvers with blanks for the shooting scenes, because a 45 will not cycle with a primer, although it can be made to cycle with a blank.

I had that concern too; I could teach an actor to cycle a semi-auto and chamber another blank, but I can't imagine that the blank would even feed through the magazine of a semi-auto pistol.

Thanks for your input. The production is over a year away, and I'm in the very earliest stages of research.

Safety is and will remain #1.

All the best,
Rob

 

[fisherman66]

"Brandon Lee (Bruce Lee's son) died at the age of 28 on the set of "The Crow". While filming one scene, where he gets shot repetitively, the cap of a blank (which shoots harmlessly) accidently got lodged in his spine after penetrating his abdomen."

"Which shoots harmlessly"

OK

 

[Old Gaffer]

"Brandon Lee (Bruce Lee's son) died at the age of 28 on the set of "The Crow". While filming one scene, where he gets shot repetitively, the cap of a blank (which shoots harmlessly) accidently got lodged in his spine after penetrating his abdomen."

I remember that all too well - and thanks.

All the best,
Rob

 

[Slopemeno]

Not really- he was hit with a bullet that had been lodged in the barrel when the prop master had made up some realistic dummy ammo by soaking some primed cases in oil to "kill the primers". He then seated bullets in the primed cases. One of the bullets got lodged in the bore, and later was driven out when a studio blank was fired.

I'd be VERY cautious about using real guns, or blanks.

 

[brickeyee]

Load the gun with snap caps and fire a blank gun out of site behind whatever scenery you have.
Even then you need to make sure the 'on stage' gun is not actually pointed at anyone.
The safest thing is an actual starter pistol with a solid barrel.

 

[James K]

It may not be feasible, but I would strongly recommend dummy guns and using a blank pistol or even drumbeats off stage for the noise. Using real guns and blanks in any theater production is a lawsuit looking for a place to happen. If an actor points a gun anywhere near someone like Sarah Brady, you can expect a $500 billion dollar suit in about 2 minutes, not to mention charges of ADW.

Good dummy guns are expensive, but local theatrical productions are not Hollywood and folks expect to use a lot of imagination, so even broomsticks are not impossible. (You wouldn't build a real castle for Hamlet.)

Jim

 

[Martyn4802]

Jim Keenan,

+10,000
The best advice!!!

Martyn

 

[Old Gaffer]

Thanks one and all,

I've done some [more] research and come up with a number of vendors that sell solid-barrel blank guns and blanks to fit; I'm sure that's the way I'm going to go.

What I'd like most now is to find a theater-supply house that rents props. There's a large enough budget to buy the guns and blanks for the show, but what do you do with them afterwards?

I suppose I could start my own theater-supply house and rent them out

All the best,
Rob

 

[oldbillthundercheif]

If you are looking into the realistic-looking 8mm blank pistols, you may want to test-fire it in the theater well beforehand. They are LOUD.

I was working the sound at a show in Chicago for a magician who shall remain nameless and the act involved a blank-firing 8mm 92F. I was warned beforehand so none of the sound quipment was damaged, but my ears were ringing for hours and I was at the board 2/3rds of the way back in a very large room.

I bet the people in the front-row were subjected to some amount of permanent hearing loss. It was every bit as loud as a real 9mm.

 

[Old Gaffer]

If you are looking into the realistic-looking 8mm blank pistols, you may want to test-fire it in the theater well beforehand. They are LOUD.

I was working the sound at a show in Chicago for a magician who shall remain nameless and the act involved a blank-firing 8mm 92F. I was warned beforehand so none of the sound quipment was damaged, but my ears were ringing for hours and I was at the board 2/3rds of the way back in a very large room.

I bet the people in the front-row were subjected to some amount of permanent hearing loss. It was every bit as loud as a real 9mm.

Thanks for that Old Bill; I've already told the director that BEFORE I buy ANYTHING, I want to get in the theater and let off some blanks. This is a V-E-R-Y small venue (about 75 seats) and the front row of seats is less than three feet from the edge of the stage.

I'm going to restrict the actors to .22's, and even then, several going off in concert (no pun intended) may be too loud for safety's sake. I may be using dummy pistols and recorded gunshots.

Fortunately, I have the technology and firearms to provide a realistic variety or weapon's reports

All the best,
Rob

 

[James K]

BTW, better also check local laws, especially the fire codes. Even the fire from a blank could ignite something. (Don't forget what happened to the Globe. I understand Lord C. was really ticked off!)

Jim

 

[Harry Bonar]

blanks

Sir:
It certainly dates me but when I had a rifle (the Garand M-1) our drill instructer told ud that 30-06 blanks were dangerous (lethal) within 20 feet.
Harry B.

 

[James K]

I have a friend who served in the PA NG. During training at Indiantown Gap, he brought a blank back to the barracks and decided to fire it. Telling the other guys that his tough GI boot would stop the blast, he put the muzzle of his M1 down on his instep and fired. The blast went through the top of the boot, his foot, the sole of the boot and the plank floor. He walks with a limp to this day.

Blanks are NOT toys to be played with.

Jim

 

[44 AMP]

Recommend firing off-stage

A starter pistol, or any sound effect that goes "bang" or "pop" (even a balloon) is much safer, and hey, it isn't a big production where realistic effects are needed to impress the audience. It is theater! Imagination required, check your disbelief at the door!

 

[ScaryWoody]

Perhaps CO2 powered BB guns might be an alternative. There are many out there that resemble "real" weapons and the CO2 produces an audible burst. Just a thought.

 

[Alleykat]

Jack Bauer carries a real, not prop, HK!