Pressure tested .45 Colt/Long Colt Loads?

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jkpq45

New member
Having a hard time trusting my Lee Modern Reloading book since one of the loads listed in the "normal" .45LC section shows 29500 PSI (yikes).

Some of the loads for the "normal" .45LC show velocities for a 230-260gn pill up into the almost-1000fps range.

The problem with these loads is they don't have pressures listed. Since I'm using a SAA replica, I want sub-14000 PSI SAFE loads. But, of course, I'd like that SAFE load to move as fast as possible.

Anybody got any pressure-tested loads they'd care to mention that push above 950 FPS for a 230-160gn bullet? Using lead but can adjust alloy for hardness.

Thanks!
jkpq45
 
S

salvadore

Moderator
I'd check your book again, my second edition doesn't shows pressures not much over 14000 cup and as lows just under 12,000 cup. The starting loads don't show any pressures. The section meant for Rugers and T/C guns show pressures well in advance of the regular Colt loads.
 
J

Jim Watson

New member
Well, not EVERY conceivable load, since Hodgdon does not handle Unique.

The Lyman manual is pretty good but does not show pressure for every powder.
 
M

mehavey

New member
Well, not EVERY conceivable load, since Hodgdon does not handle Unique.
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Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa ... ;) :D

But Universal (spheroidal Unique) pretty much does run the gamut from 160-300gr

(It's one of those "U" powders found to be so "U"seful.) <GGG>
 
1

1911Tuner

New member
.45 Colt

The .45 Colt isn't a high intensity round, and doesn't really need to be. Playing with unknown pressures is a crapshoot. Stick with reliable data in established manuals. If an unknown load doesn't include tested pressures...exercise caution. It's probably not worth the risk. Understand that high pressures don't always equate to high velocities.

And...

With bullet weights in the 250-270 grain neighborhood, more velocity than about 900-950 fps serves mainly to flatten trajectory while adding little to the lethality. Unless you plan on taking your deer outside of normal handgunning ranges with your .45 Colt revolver...that velocity level will take care of business.

When I finally got around to dabbling with the .45 Colt cartridge, I discovered that one of my only two pistol powders...2400 and Unique...delivered what I wanted.

Okay. Okay. Lately, I've been using Bullseye for my return to .38 Special, and a little .45 Auto...but that's pretty much it.

A 250-grain cast bullet and 8.5-9 grains of Unique will do all that I require. A guy I know who's been loading .45 Colt for over 40 years, and has been firing it exclusively in Colt SAAs and has never bent one of his beloved Colts using 8.5 grains never dabbles with anything heavier.

I tried turning up the heat with 2400...slightly warmer than standard data, but well below Ruger Only...and the velocities were all over the map, varying as much as a hundred fps from high to low, while Unique was consistent, and was close enough to the average 2400 velocities to call it a coin toss.

9 grains of Unique with my 250-grain cast bullets breaks 900 fps average in both my 4.62-inch New Vaqueros and the cases all but fall out of the chambers. If I can't do what I need to do with that, there's always the .41 Magnum Blackhawk that's been idle for a while.

Incidentally...for those interested...9 grains with a 210 cast bullet in the .41 is a sterling load that averages around 1050 fps from the 4.62 inch Blackhawk and shoots like a laser out to 50 yards. A good general purpose knock-around load that I can shoot all day without makin' my wrist sore.
 
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B

Bezoar

Moderator
1000fps is NORMAL velocity for the balloon head case with 40 grains of black powder with a nice long 7.5 inch plus pistol barrel. Which is what the companies still use for testing.

Now i have seen interesting variations in some load manuals with handguns. I wont give any real particular out of it, but if a 38 colt load with a 158 grain roundnose and standard hp38 gives 38,000 cup ill be rethinking a 357 soon.
 
G

GeauxTide

New member
I've used 10gr of Unique under a 275 LFN for 1057. Shoots through 8" diameter pine trees like cheese from 50'. I'm with 1911Turner on 9gr of Unique in a 41; however, I use a 215 cast.
 
J

jkpq45

New member
Unique sounds like a fine choice. I don't see any pressure data on the Alliant site, though.

Does anyone have any pressure tested loads that get 1000 FPS for a 230-260gn lead pill?
 
J

Jim Watson

New member
I am pretty sure Alliant is a SAAMI member and so the maximum load they publish will not exceed the SAAMI maximum pressure of 14,000 piezo psi or CUP. (They are equal for .45 Colt.)
 
1

1911Tuner

New member
I am pretty sure Alliant is a SAAMI member and so the maximum load they publish will not exceed the SAAMI maximum pressure of 14,000 piezo psi or CUP.
Click to expand...

Just as an FYI/something to consider...

The SAAMI set the maximum pressures for the cartridge with the understanding that there are still a good many older 1873SAA revolvers out there...with unknown histories and round counts, etc. A modern single action revolver is quite a bit stronger and will stand a little more heat. Most of them are proofed at 20,000 or maybe a little more. This isn't to suggest that we get stupid and use Ruger Only data in our Italian copies and the new Colts...or even the New Vaqueros. Only that they're capable of handling more than what are essentially black powder pressure levels.


One manual lists 9.5 grains of Unique with cast 250-grain bullets. It's been safe in both my New Vaqueros.
 
4

44 AMP

Staff
Generally, with Colts, the line is drawn between the original black powder guns and the later ones (from the early 1900s on) that were made and proofed with smokeless powder.

The "modern" Colt SAAs (smokeless powder guns) have been in use for a century, basically and while I don't have pressure data, I do have several old loading manuals, going back to the 1950s.

10.0gr Unique under a 250gr bullet is the listed max load in all of them. SAFE in COLT SAAs. This load, depending on the gun turns in 1000fps +/- depending on barrel length.

In my 7.5" Ruger it turns in 1070fps avg.

I would not hesitate to use (work up to) this load in a Colt SAA, modern clone, or Ruger New Vaquero, bearing in mind that it is a max load for these guns, with all the usual warnings and precautions being observed.

9.5gr is a very good load, and there is very little observed difference between it and 10gr.
 
J

jkpq45

New member
So 9.5gr Unique would be a safe starting load in my Uberti clone under a 260gn cast lead Keith or a 230gn RNL (originally intended for .45ACP as a hardball round)?

Sorry for asking the question again, just wanting to make sure.

Thanks for your patience and input!
 
M

mehavey

New member
Unique/9.5 under a 250g LSWC is Alliant's MAX load -- not a starting load for 14,000psi limits.

(I had thought you'd specified 14k (?)
 
B

Buzzcook

New member
10gr Unique gets slightly better than 1000fps out of a 7 1/2" barrel with a lrn.

Starting load should be 9gr.

I prefer powder puff loads between 750 and 800fps
 
1

1911Tuner

New member
Proof

From all that I can gather, the Colts...New Vaqueros...and the Ubertis are proofed at 23,000 psi. That doesn't suggest that we should use ammunition loaded to that level on a regular basis. Only that they're proof-tested at that pressure. I'd venture a guess that a New Vaquero wouldn't bat an eye at 10% below proof. The Colts and Ubertis might not fare as well other than on an occasional or limited to a "need" basis.

As a wise man once observed: (paraphrased)

"The pressure required to accelerate a 250 grain bullet to a thousand fps in 5 or 6 inches of barrel are more than sufficient to blow your eyes through the back of your head."

It might be a good idea to mention that Elmer Keith's adventures into velocity land weren't so much to increase energy or "killing power" as many people like to say. It was to flatten trajectory. Elmer liked to be able to take the longer shots when that was all he had and his meat supply was on the line.
 
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