Prefered elk cartridge for a 300 yard shot.

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Boogershooter

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My father in law has been unhappy with his trusty 30-06 the last couple years in Colorado hunting elk. He goes to the same spot everytime and the elk come into the very small clearing at 275 to 300 yards from his position. I've tried to help him find a better position but that isn't possible. After years of hunting this land he's got it figured out. The problem is they go down a deep ravine less than 100 yards away everytime making them difficult to retrieve. I've offered him any choice of my favorites but he told me to just let him use one that me or my wife won't be using. So help me decide which to take him to practice with.
264 winmag
7mmstw
300wsm
300weatherby
338winmag
I always sight his rifles in for him and then he shoots just to double check. Any opinions will be appreciated!
 
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FrankenMauser

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Well, my preference would be the '06. But if a change is inevitable....

I'd go for the .338 WM.

The only justification, versus the other cartridges?... Larger diameter with a little more mass.
 
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Boogershooter

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Thanks frank, it's always been his choice also and he's tried several different bullets. He's made good shots, it just isn't putting them down fast enough. I admit we are lazy hunters and try to get the whole animal back to camp so we don't have to butcher in the field. The 300 weatherby and 338 winmag have always been my go-to cartridges but I'm not recoil sensitive. His last 4 elk have made it down the ravine. No horse or atv can make it down there. I've recommended swapping places with him but he's hard headed. He's also had 3 back surgeries so this year may be his last anyway.
 
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taylorce1

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Honestly, none of the rifles will do what your FIL wants it to do any better than his .30-06. What you have to change is your FIL, and where he shoots his elk. If elk are dropping off into the nasty terrain after being shot, you have to change where he's shooting them. You need to have your FIL make high shoulder shots taking out the central nervous system (CNS) and dump his elk where they stand. Even a .338 Win Mag won't drop an elk in its tracks if it doesn't take out the CNS.
 
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Boogershooter

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I've tried to get him to think about that but he is definitely a meat man. He shoots behind the shoulder as not to waste any meat. He's almost as hard headed as his daughter lol. I understand not wasting both shoulders on a 130 lb whitetail but elk are a different ballgame. His unwillingness to change anything has brought me to the belief that he likes sitting on his hind end and watch everybody else do the work. I disn't mind doing this the first or second time but his stubbornness is unbelievable. I have dropped elk with a shot behind the shoulder with both the 300 weatherby and the 338 but shots were at 150 not 300. I've got a few months to work on getting him to change his mind but I'm not holding my breath.
 
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Slamfire

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Why not a 35 Whelen? Three hundred yards is not too far for a 35 Whelen, the round was developed with a 250 grain bullet at 2500 fps, old timers used to use 270's grain bullets at one time. The thing starts out as 35 caliber, you have a heavy bullet, and it is going to make a big hole.
 
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T. O'Heir

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"...sight his rifles in for him..." You cannot do that. He has to sight in and practice. Pop needs to get closer too. Mind you, if he's sighted in about 3.5" high at 100 using a 165, he's going to be on target out to 300. Even though the energy is dropping off any elk will die. Nothing will guarantee a DRT.
And no magnum will kill anything any faster or deader.
 
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Wyosmith

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Am I understanding this correctly?
He believes that 300 yards is too far for a 30-06?

If 300 yds is too far for a 30-06 in his hands, it's too far for anything else too.

I say this because the 30-06 can easily be zeroed at 300, and if he has a 200 yard zero and is shooting 180 grain bullets he would only have to hold on the hair of the chest above center about 9" On a 24" X 24" target that not a big trick.

This is not a gun problem at all. It's a marksmanship problem.
More recoil from a faster cartridge is not likely to help at all, and in fact I'd bet it will be worse for him.

I killed one last year with a 270 at about 400 yards, and it was no big deal.
 
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taylorce1

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Well if you can't get him to change, then you're limited on choices. Either get him to move or tell him if he shoots the elk he has to help you recover it. The last option is not to take him elk hunting at all.

I'll do a lot of work to help an older or younger Hunter out, but I won't do it all. If they want to hunt they have to want to help, I may do the majority of the work but they need to put in what they're capable of doing. My daughter at 13 now does all her own field dressing and skinning, I still do most of the packing. If your FIL wants his favorite spot he needs to go down into the ravine with you to help with recovery.
 
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Boogershooter

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He loves his 06 and that's all he's ever used. He's not doubting it's ability to kill. He's old and believes he is always right. I'm honestly shocked that he's mentioned using anything different. With the metal rods in his back now I'm not 100% sure he will make it this year. I'm no expert marksman but yes I do sight in rifles for him after changing scopes or ammo. I can shoot a 2 inch group with his rifle at 300 yards. He does good to get a 5 inch group. Saves him alot of ammo. I get it zeroed for me, he then shoots a 3 shot group. I adjust the scope to center his group then he shoots another group. At that point we know his rifle is good for him. Hopefully the old man will just stay at camp and cook this year.
 
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Boogershooter

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We tried a few years ago building him a blind down at the edge of the meadow. He kept getting busted because he's either lighting his cigarettes on the heater or heating a can of sardines on top of it. The meadow is only 75 yards wide and and 100 long. The spot he sits is a small buff just above the meadow. Thanks for listening to my frustrations. I guess I could let him read this conversation and see if that helps change his mind.
 
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kilimanjaro

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You could get him a .416 Rigby and the elk will still make to the ravine, in all probability.

The blind is the ideal location for him. All he needs to do is become a hunter, meaning refrain from smoking and heating up tinned fish for a couple of hours in the morning.
 
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jmr40

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A 30-06 with factory loads is more than enough gun for 400 yards. With decent hand loads you can beat factory loads easily by 100 fps and still be effective at 500 yards. The rounds you mention will make absolutely zero difference out to 300 yards. Some will do no better than equal the 30-06 and at best still be effective out to 600+ yards.

At ONLY 300 yards most any modern big game cartridge is more than adequate.
 
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ligonierbill

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I agree the problem isn't the caliber. It might be the bullet. What is your FIL shooting? But most likely, it's the critter that's the problem. Elk can be pretty tough, or at least unpredictable.

I've only shot 2, both with a 7 mag. That's a great elk round, but certainly not better than an '06 at 300. First elk, a big Idaho cow at 400 yards (only shot I was going to get). Remington commercial ammo, 150 CoreLokt, not your "premium" bullet. Quartering away, I made a good shot, and she went down on the spot. Fast forward a few years to Colorado, late in a warm day. I'm about shot myself working the back of a ridge above Bailey, and here they come. I'm standing there like a fool as a parade of cows trots past me at 20 yards. But bringing up the rear is a decent 5-point. I've now got my hot handloads with somebody's premium 160 (I forget whose). Shot him right through the ribs, I thought, but he kept going like I'd missed! I got another chambered just as he was about to round the sidehill out of sight and fired for the back of his neck. A moment later, he did a slow collapse, tail first, lifted his head once, and out. Well, the second shot was a clean miss. The first was on target, and at 3,000 fps, that bullet didn't exit. In fact I never found a piece of it. But it blew up that bull's chest cavity like a hand grenade. He didn't flinch, jump, slow down, or give any indication his heart and lungs were soup. You just couldn't hit one harder, but he kept going.

I shoot a .338 Win Mag now. Haven't shot an elk with it, but Barnes has a 210 TTSX that may be the most devastating thing you can hit one with. But I hate to tell you, if it's less than a hundred yards, they may still run into the ravine on you. That's just the way it is.
 
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Boogershooter

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I appreciate the info gentlemen, I agree that elk are unpredictable. His favorite was the core lock but has used the winchester ballistic tips, nosler partition, and federal fusion. He has had several drop in their tracks and now just expects all of them too. I've only hunted with them the last few years and he hasn't dropped one yet. His brother has begged him to get away from that spot but he refuses. It's a great spot and he sees more elk and mule deer than the rest of us. I'm gona see if he can handle the 338 win mag with 225 gr's. It may not do any better at that range than the 06 but if it fails then maybe he will change spots. If my oldest boy hunts this year I know he will take him and let him do the shooting.
 
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Blindstitch

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If the 338 doesn't work you should probably just bite your tongue and hope that this is his last year.

He's lucky that he even bags an elk. I think time would be better spent long range shooting to make sure he's still accurate all the time.
 
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Boogershooter

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The model 70 supergrade does a very nice job of taming the recoil on the 338. Model 70 featherweight in 270 is much worse on the shoulder. But then again recoil is a very individual subjective thing.
 
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