Pre War model 10
- Thread starter GP100man
- Start date
Mike Irwin
Staff
Pre WHAT war?
World War II?
If so, your friend needs a hammer from the correct time period. Later hammers, especially post 1948 or so when S&W went to the short action lockwork, will not fit.
Springs are not a problem. Wolff gunsprings or Brownell's sells replacements.
World War II?
If so, your friend needs a hammer from the correct time period. Later hammers, especially post 1948 or so when S&W went to the short action lockwork, will not fit.
Springs are not a problem. Wolff gunsprings or Brownell's sells replacements.
madcratebuilder
New member
Determine if it's a long action or newer short action. Long action parts, in good condition, can be difficult to find.
I picked up this old 4th change for pennies because a previous owner had given it a trigger job, total fubar, no DA and would push off on SA. Three hammers and eight months to find a serviceable hammer. Worth the effort, butter smooth now, great shooter.
I picked up this old 4th change for pennies because a previous owner had given it a trigger job, total fubar, no DA and would push off on SA. Three hammers and eight months to find a serviceable hammer. Worth the effort, butter smooth now, great shooter.
carguychris
New member
Well- usually they're not.
.38 Military & Police models prior to the Model of 1905, 4th Change- serial numbers 241703 and under, no alphabetical prefix- have some significant differences in the design of the lockwork. Some of these guns, particularly the early ones, are very difficult to find parts for.
One other thing- are you certain that the gun is a K frame .38 M&P? There have been a couple of instances on this forum where someone has mistaken a prewar N frame .38/44 Heavy Duty for a .38 M&P! Both guns are 6-shot and are marked ".38 S&W SPECIAL CTG." on the barrel, and neither of them have the name of the gun marked on them anywhere. A prewar .38/44 will have a serial number between 35037 and 62335, while an early postwar one will have an "S" prefix and a serial number under 300,000. (Postwar K frames are also found with "S" prefixes, but the serial will be over 700,000.)
Mike Irwin
Staff
".38 Military & Police models prior to the Model of 1905, 4th Change- serial numbers 241703 and under, no alphabetical prefix- have some significant differences in the design of the lockwork. Some of these guns, particularly the early ones, are very difficult to find parts for."
Yes. But given the relative number of those made, vs ones using the now common spring configuration, I think it highly likely that we're dealing with one of the later ones.
And, unless it's a Model of 1902 or earlier, I believe a set of Wolff replacement springs is a 100% replacement as the trigger return spring changed to the rebound slide style with the 1905.
So, anything post about 65,000 and we should be good to go.
And if it is a .38 Heavy Duty, as I said, springs are not a problem.
Yes. But given the relative number of those made, vs ones using the now common spring configuration, I think it highly likely that we're dealing with one of the later ones.
And, unless it's a Model of 1902 or earlier, I believe a set of Wolff replacement springs is a 100% replacement as the trigger return spring changed to the rebound slide style with the 1905.
So, anything post about 65,000 and we should be good to go.
And if it is a .38 Heavy Duty, as I said, springs are not a problem.
I have the revolver in my possesion it`s an M&P serial #27113 4" pinned barrel.On the bottom side of the barrel is 544, the top I can barely make the end of "special" out, I think. & someone removed the lanyard .
The ole gal is in sad shape !! pits & some rust ,but cyl. & barrel is clear.
The cyl closes ok ,but loose but the latch won`t catch the cyl unless ya push forward on the trigger (return problem ??) The crane/frame is worn to the point I can slip the cyl by the retaining nub but can`t fully remove it because of the ejector knob.
I feel as I have a shadow box peice, but if I can get it to time up reliably maybe a snakeshot revolver for fishing .
What`s the screw for in the front of the trigger gaurd for ???
The ole gal is in sad shape !! pits & some rust ,but cyl. & barrel is clear.
The cyl closes ok ,but loose but the latch won`t catch the cyl unless ya push forward on the trigger (return problem ??) The crane/frame is worn to the point I can slip the cyl by the retaining nub but can`t fully remove it because of the ejector knob.
I feel as I have a shadow box peice, but if I can get it to time up reliably maybe a snakeshot revolver for fishing .
What`s the screw for in the front of the trigger gaurd for ???
Winchester_73
New member
Judging by the pic, you actually don't have a S&W at all. You have one of the many S&W copies made probably in Spain.
I say this because for one, the mainspring. I don't think even a M&P that early would have that type of mainspring. Another thing is the hammer profile: it does not look like anything that S&W every made. Same for the trigger (S&Ws have a more abrupt curve in the trigger). Also the cylinder stop notches look different. On a S&W there is a slot with an indentation pointing downward, like on madecratebuilders S&W. Yours has plain slots? Also, the SN of the barrel should match the bottom of the grip frame, so at the very least, your barrel was replaced (if the gun is a S&W). And finally, you mention that caliber is readable on the top but on nearly any S&W K frame I have seen, the cal would be on the left hand side of the barrel with the patent dates either on top or on the right of the barrel, depending on the age of the gun. Also, the trigger guard does not look S&W in shape to my eye.
If its a spanish copy, its not worth repairing but would be a fine shadow box gun. If I'm wrong, my apologies.
Here is one of mine, a 1905 1st change M&P target. SN 115XXX
I say this because for one, the mainspring. I don't think even a M&P that early would have that type of mainspring. Another thing is the hammer profile: it does not look like anything that S&W every made. Same for the trigger (S&Ws have a more abrupt curve in the trigger). Also the cylinder stop notches look different. On a S&W there is a slot with an indentation pointing downward, like on madecratebuilders S&W. Yours has plain slots? Also, the SN of the barrel should match the bottom of the grip frame, so at the very least, your barrel was replaced (if the gun is a S&W). And finally, you mention that caliber is readable on the top but on nearly any S&W K frame I have seen, the cal would be on the left hand side of the barrel with the patent dates either on top or on the right of the barrel, depending on the age of the gun. Also, the trigger guard does not look S&W in shape to my eye.
If its a spanish copy, its not worth repairing but would be a fine shadow box gun. If I'm wrong, my apologies.
Here is one of mine, a 1905 1st change M&P target. SN 115XXX
Mike Irwin
Staff
Absolutely a Spanish copy.
I've seen MANY badly abused Smith & Wessons, but I've never seen an S&W that has pitted like that.
I have, however, seen MANY Spanish copies that have pitted like that. It's apparently the nature of the metal that they used that it will pit like that.
Odd thing about many of the Spanish copies... Externally they look like S&Ws, but internally, they're a lot more like Colts of the time frame.
You're right, it's a shadowbox piece. I wouldn't put a live cartridge in it under any circumstance.
I've seen MANY badly abused Smith & Wessons, but I've never seen an S&W that has pitted like that.
I have, however, seen MANY Spanish copies that have pitted like that. It's apparently the nature of the metal that they used that it will pit like that.
Odd thing about many of the Spanish copies... Externally they look like S&Ws, but internally, they're a lot more like Colts of the time frame.
You're right, it's a shadowbox piece. I wouldn't put a live cartridge in it under any circumstance.