Pre-Ban Gun versus Pre-Ban Magazine question

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kayakersteve

New member
First, I know we can not give each other legal advise, so let me be clear that I am not asking for that.I own a post ban NRA Mini and live in NY State. I was only allowed to get the 5 round magazines when I purchased it.
QUESTION: I am asking for opinions only: Would the use of an older Pre-Ban magazine (20 round) be legal with this gun?? I can not find any input on this reading what laws I am able to find. Let me know what any of you think, especially if you are from NY State
 
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kayakersteve

New member
The problem with that...

I have two friends that are sheriff's and they don't know.... I just wanted to know what other gun owners think.
 
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sixsM4

New member
Try the FAQ page on this site, if you haven't already - http://www.fulton-armory.com/M6Tools.htm.
Tons of good info on mags. I am a NYS resident myself, and I just bought some AR15 20 and 30 round mags from them, all of which are pre-ban, and legal to ship to upstate residents of NY.

The law is clearer as it applies to mags than it is as it applies to weapons - it states that the mags made before the '94 ban are lawful to possess. But it isn't as clear on the weapons themselves, saying that in order to be exempt from the ban they had to have been "LAWFULLY POSSESSED PRIOR TO SEPTEMBER FOURTEENTH, NINETEEN HUNDRED NINETY-FOUR. ", besides (obviously) having been manufactured prior to that date.
My question has always been "lawfully possessed" by WHO? The law seems to imply that it allows a person who already owned an assault weapon to keep it.
I hope I'm wrong, because I want to buy a pre-ban M4 soon, but I can't seem to find a clear answer on this.
 
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rkba_net

New member
Post ban weapons AND PRE-ban magazines in NYS are separate issues... just like with the Federal AW ban it is legal in NYS to use a PRE-ban mag in a post ban weapon...
 
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sixsM4

New member
Thanks, rkba_net - you did a better job of answering the original question. Asking me a simple question sometimes is like cracking open War and Peace!

At any rate, when you look at how some of these laws are worded, you wonder why these politicians can't get it straight in simple English.
 
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kayakersteve

New member
rkba net answered it precisley

rkba net - Thanks - You precisley answered my question. I hope you are correct. You would not have any documentation to support that would you??? Again, I appreciate input on this.
 
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rkba_net

New member
There is nothing to document... because this scenario is not mentioned in NYS law. something that is not specifically illegal is by definition legal...
 
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Chuckusaret

Moderator
I believe this will be easy to answer after Jan 20th 2009. We won't need any magazines, we won't have any weapons
after obamanation/biden take office..............
 
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sixsM4

New member
rkba_net - cool - glad to hear somebody else say that. I could find nothing in the NY law nor the Fed that addressed the notion of using a pre ban mag in a post ban weapon.
Our friends at Fulton Armory have strongly proclaimed there's nothing unlawful about it, and I've happily done business with them for some time now. Great source for pre-ban mags. Anybody who hasn't checked them out, you owe it to yourself - it's a great company and a very informative website, although pretty tough to navigate - but worth it. fulton-armory.com
 
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kayakersteve

New member
Thanks

I agree that it should be OK, but it would be nice to have some case law or documents stating that when I am being questioned be Mr. Friendly with a badge! Thanks. It brings up my other point - - How do you prove a magazine is pre-ban???
 
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sixsM4

New member
Before I babble, I'll just refer you to these sites that I found very informative -

http://magfaq.tripod.com/mags1.htm#2a

http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/ar15faq.msnw

http://www.nyfirearms.com/blog/2008/10/preban-ar-15-magazine-identification/

I haven't seen any 20 or 30 rounders from after the ban, but it seems that they are supposed to be stamped as such. I own 10 rounders that were made recently, and they're unmarked, but 10 rounders are exempt, even in NY.
I've bought several pre ban 20s and 30s, all unmarked exept for the manufacturers name on the floorplates - all of them are referenced in the above websites as being pre-ban.
In the end, it would seem that if law enforcement finds hi-capacity mags that are unmarked (and obviously not new) then they conclude they are pre ban.
I know. Once more we'd all like to "see something hard in writing", but if it's out there, I haven't found it.
 
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sixsM4

New member
PS, kayakersteve - I got I clearer answer recently to an question I brought up earlier on this thread - to quote what I mentioned:

"But it (NY AWB law) isn't as clear on the weapons themselves, saying that in order to be exempt from the ban they had to have been "LAWFULLY POSSESSED PRIOR TO SEPTEMBER FOURTEENTH, NINETEEN HUNDRED NINETY-FOUR. ", besides (obviously) having been manufactured prior to that date.
My question has always been "lawfully possessed" by WHO? The law seems to imply that it (only) allows a person who already owned an assault weapon to keep it."


I put that question to a trusted FFL dealer I know well - I quoted that same part of the law and asked him "Doesn't that only mean that if you owned the Evil Black Rifle before the ban, that you can continue to possess it? I'm not sure I can interpret it to mean that it's OK to BUY one NOW". (That meaning in New York State)
I was relieved when he shook his head. He answered me "That part of the law allows a pre ban weapon that the manufacturer sold to an individual or dealer BEFORE the ban to continue to be resold and 'lawfully possessed' by each successive owner. What it also means is that if a manufacturer has a cache of pre ban weapons that were never sold, meaning never lawfully possessed by anyone outside of the manufacturer, that those weapons are now considered 'post-ban', and cannot be sold as pre-ban. If an EBR was sold into the market before the ban, it's pre-ban and will stay pre ban and eligible for continued lawful sale."

So let's GO GET EM!!!
 
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