Powder recommendation?

[Aguila Blanca]

I've been loading for a number of years and I have many thousands of rounds under my belt and through my press, but the vast majority has been .45 ACP, with a considerably smaller number of 99 and an even smaller number of .380 ACP. I'm going to be jumping into some revolver rounds, and I'd like a recommendation for a powder.

For all my .45 ACP and 9mm I've used Winchester 231/HP-38. My recipe has been settled for several years at 5.3 grains for .45 ACP, and at that charge weight a single charge doesn't fill half the case. I really have to look to verify that I have a charge down there. I'm looking to start up with .44 Colt, .44 Special, and .45 Colt. I think I need a powder that's a bit bulkier, so a charge fills at least half of the case (and preferably a bit more than that). Since all I've ever used is Winchester 231, I don't know anything about other powders.

What's a good powder for mild, larger caliber revolver rounds?

Thanks.

 

[RC20]

2400 has always been my favorite for the bigger cases.

Forgot who makes it now.

H110 was a known go to powder for those as well.

 

[ligonierbill]

I like Unique for all those rounds. I ignored it for years, but I'm a convert.

 

[RC20]

I just hauled out my Horandy book, I keep edition 9 by the computer so I don't have to run back and forth so its not the latest.


44 Colt?

HS-6 is common to 44 special and 45 colt as it Unique and B eye.

Everhthing listed is only 8 9 grains maximum.

Those are limited as there are a lot of old guns out there.

Modern gun and they can be pushed but research needed for what gun, what bullets.

 

[AlaskaMike]

Trail Boss is designed exactly for this purpose--mild loads in large cases.

 

[disseminator]

I also suggest Trail Boss as it provides full cases at proper pressures and velocities.

I use max loads for 44 Mag with a 240 SWC and 45 Colt with 200 and 250 grain LRN.

May I also suggest you try some of the powder coated lead bullets which are great for these cartridges. Velocities are 900-1000 fps.

Good accuracy and full cases.

If it's full power loads, then H110 or LilGun or vvN110 will get you there.

 

[T. O'Heir]

"...doesn't fill half the case..." Doesn't need to.
"...5.3 grains for .45 ACP..." For what bullet weight? That's the Max load for a cast or jacketed 230.
"...good powder for..." A lot has to do with what you're doing with 'em, but there's no reason not to use HP38 in any of those cartridges. Hodgdon has .44 Colt data on their site. Cast bullet loads are decidedly calm too.
.44 Colt is a 19th Century U.S. Army cartridge used until 1873. Starline makes brass or .44 Special can be trimmed to length. Mind you, not many companies but Starline are currently making .44 Special brass.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

1. .45 ACP -- 5.3 grains of Win231/HP-38 with a Berry's 230-grain plated bullet only yields about 775 fps out of a 5" 1911. The Berry's bullet has a shorter body than most FMJ bullets, resulting in more case volume for the same C.O.L. I know the charts say I'm at max, but t'ain't so.


2. For the .44 Colt I'm using Starline brass. I did find the data for HP-38, but I've read quite a bit about small charges in large cases leading to detonation, so I wondered if I should try something else. Trail Boss was, in fact, one that I had in mind. Saw some posts on one site with URGENT! warnings about Trail Boss being a super-dooper, uber-fast powder. Then I looked up a burn rate chart and saw that it's several notches slower than Winchester 231, so I guess the burn rate isn't a concern.

Gotta see if anyone around here stocks Trail Boss. I won't be loading a lot of these, and I don't want to pay triple the price of the powder in haz-mat fees for a 9-ounce bottle of Trail Boss.

 

[mikejonestkd]

Trail boss is awesome for mild loads in revolver rounds. I love shooting powder puff loads in 44 mag and 45 colt when loaded with trail boss
Unique and 231 are excellent for most mid range loads in the above listed cartridges.

 

[Unclenick]

…but I've read quite a bit about small charges in large cases leading to detonation,

The kind of small charge it takes to get detonation are typically down around 10% fill of the powder space under the bullet with quick powders and 40% or less for slow rifle powders. For example, I know of one .308 Winchester that blew up using 3 grains of fairly quick N320 pistol powder with lead bullets, but that .308 case has way more space in it than any of the rounds you mentioned. It also seems to be a problem with slow rifle powders when you load them down to far in a rifle case. Dr. Lloyd Brownell measured peak pressure doubling in .30-06 cases using slower powders at around 30% case fill. It didn't happen often, but he wrote that statistically it did occur once in a while.

The cartridges you mentioned are all older, low pressure rounds. The H110 and 2400 suggested earlier are for magnum level loads. The .44 Special and the .45 Colt can handle very heavy loads like that in the right heavy revolver, like a beefy Ruger, but if you are wanting to shoot CAS matches, then stay away from those powders as they load down very poorly. Trail Boss is what you want for that. Just don't compress it, as the crushed grains can present a higher burning rate than the intact grains do. I like that powder a lot, though. Super clean burning and you can fill the space under the bullet pretty completely with it, as it is very bulky. Its energy density in joules per cm³ is intended to mimic that of black powder. Just don't compress it like black powder.

Are you going to shoot heeled bullets in the .44 Colt? That's what it was designed for originally, so you may have to do that to prevent leading.

 

[dahermit]

Trail Boss is designed exactly for this purpose--mild loads in large cases.

And expensive as hell. I recently paid 19.99 (plus $1.18 Michigan sales tax, plus Pittman-Robertson tax), for 9 oz. I decided that for all its "advantages" it is just too expensive to use.
I go with Unique...it has worked for me since the sixties in .44 Special, .45 ACP and .45 Colt.

 

[Unclenick]

Yes, it's about $36/lb. Works well, though. Hodgdon Universal is another good one. A bit cleaner than Unique just because it isn't graphite-coated.

 

[Paul B.]

"For the .44 Colt I'm using Starline brass. I did find the data for HP-38, but I've read quite a bit about small charges in large cases leading to detonation, so I wondered if I should try something else?"

No. HP38 and W231 are the same powder, just different lots and packaging.
For the record, the original charge for the .45 ACP way back when (1911) was 5.0 gr. of Hercules Bullseye. The fact that you did not get better velocity with your load of HP38 is because it's a bit slower burning than Bullseye. (Now made by Alliant) Case in point favored target load for the .38 Spl. and a 148 gr. wadcutter is 2.7 gr. It tale 3.1 gr. of W231/HP38 to match that load in my handguns. I have experimented with the ACP and Bullseye going as low as 2.5 gr. just to see how they would shoot in an old 1917 S&W revolver. At 3 feet the bullet would only bury half it's length into a pine 2x4. No worry about detonation. THat usually come with slow burning rifle powders with the max load reduced more than 10 percent.
Paul B.

 

[BBarn]

I've never loaded for 44 Colt, but do load for the 44 Special and 45 Colt. Powders frequently recommend for the 44 and 45 that provide the greatest case fill would be Trail Boss and IMR4227.

Trail Boss is a very bulky powder and offers good fill in those big cases. IMR4227 is more of a magnum powder that also works in those applications and produces top end loads for those relatively low pressure rounds.

Blue Dot, Herco, and 800X are also somewhat bulky, but they won't provide nearly the case fill of Trail Boss and IMR4227. In fact, some of those will fall short of the desired 50% case fill.

Even though they don't offer good case fill, I tend to use somewhat faster powders for the 44 Special and 45 Colt. I consider W231/HP-38 a good powder for both the 44 and 45, and I like Unique and Red Dot in the 45 as well. The big disadvantage in the faster powders is their poor case fill (which you wish to avoid). I've chosen to use the faster powders and be extra careful against over-charging during the loading process.

One last note. If you are going to use jacketed bullets in those loads, be careful not to load too light. Jacketed bullets can stick in the bore with light loads in those rounds.

 

[AL45]

In .45 Colt I primarily use Universal and also like Unique. I have used Trail Boss, Blue Dot, IMR 4227, HS-6 and H 110 for hot loads in my Ruger.

 

[Mike Irwin]

My absolute go-to powder for .44 Special is Trail Boss. It performs BRILLIANTLY, with excellent ballistic uniformity. And it fills the case by about 80%

I had been using 231, but it required such a tiny powder charge that I was getting severe fluctuation in ballistics, probably due to powder position.

I suspect that Trail Boss would be equally good in .44 Colt.

As for .45 Colt, Trail Boss would work, but I wanted something a bit peppier, so I went with Universal. Very clean burning quite accurate.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Are you going to shoot heeled bullets in the .44 Colt? That's what it was designed for originally, so you may have to do that to prevent leading.

Yes, that's what this whole new journey into unknown territory is about. I have a pile of .44 Colt cases from Starline and a box of .451" heeled bullets from Alpha-Bravo Manufacturing.

If I'm safe using Winchester 231/HP-38, I'll just go with that, since I already have it. The bullets are 220-grain and I'm figuring that 4.5 grains should be a good starting point. They'll be fired in a modern reproduction revolver (Pietta).

I'm also considering loading the same heeled bullets in .44 Russian cases as a way of addressing the case fill "issue" (or non-issue) with Win 231/HP-38. The .44 Russian case is shorter than the .44 Colt, so with the same bullet I'd have less excess case volume.

Not interested in hot loads. I just want a light plinking load for use in a mongrel revolver.

 

[dahermit]

Trail Boss is a very bulky powder and offers good fill in those big cases.

It is so bulky that they can only get 9 oz. into a standard can whereas a full pound of other powders fit. Evidently, the distributor or merchants do not care there is only 9 oz., they charge the same as for a full pound of something else. I have purchased my very last can of Trail Boss...I don't care how good it is. I will stick to buying Bullseye, Unique, et. al. in 8 lb. containers.

 

[Unclenick]

Then that will work. It just won't have the consistency of the Trail Boss, and also, because Trail Boss fills the case around 80%, as Mike said, you can't get an unnoticed double charge with it the way you can if you aren't careful with 231 or Bullseye or other fast powder. But as to being necessary, for CAS targets it won't be, but for shooting Conventional Pistol targets in a revolver match with the .44 Special, I've found the Trail Boss provides an edge, especially on the 50 yard slow fire target.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"Evidently, the distributor or merchants do not care there is only 9 oz., they charge the same as for a full pound of something else."

Uhm... OK. That's a peculiar gripe, but OK.