populated area varmint gun

[DMMikey]

I live in upstate NY. That presents some interesting hunting situations.
There are only a few counties that allow rifle hunting for deer.
The reason given is the relatively dense population compared to most areas.
We are now being over run with coyotes. We are allowed to hunt these, and some small game, with rifles. Go figure.
My nephew has had some success on coyotes using a .22 mag, but this hardly seems ideal.
I would like to use something a little more powerful.
The traditional solution has been the .22 Hornet. Compared to more modern rounds, its quieter, shorter range.
From what I have read, however, its a round that has been a bit neglected, and can also be difficult to reload for, due to case stretching and different size barrels depending on manufacturer effecting accuracy.
Most modern rounds I see manufacturers coming up with these days seem to emphasize range, and faster is better, and flat shooting, etc....
I'm looking more for big and slow and packing a punch. Actually, less range would be better, I might have to worry a little less about how far a round travels. And slower should theoretically be quieter.
And maybe kick a bit less. I have inflammatory arthritis, so it's an issue.
Any one have any ideas?
I was looking through Lee's reloading manual. Looking for something like this. I only found some old black powder based rounds, and interestingly, the .270 REN, which is a straight case wildcat of the .22 Hornet.
Any one with some experience with these rounds?

Am I overthinking all this?

Thanks,
Mike

 

[comn-cents]

Well Mike
I'm totally going in the wrong direction on my suggestion. But
How about a 17hmr. they rarely go though a yot and if you miss what ever the bullet hits will more than likely disintegrate it. They turn the insides to mush also, most of the time. Just a thought

12 gauge with OO

 

[damien1988]

i own all of the guns u have sugested sooo far my best choice would me .17 rem fireball they are a amazing little round i use the .17 fireball and the .22 hornet weekly on foxes (presume they are close to same as a yote just smaller) they have no problame with killing them if u wana keep the pelt juss use the .17 i use neoprean tips in my 22 hornet 4 foxes there can be a problame with punch throu with FMJ but havent had a problame with the neoprean tips hope it helps

cheers
damo

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Hey Mike,

Your answer is the 204ruger.

It is somewhat quieter than other high velocity rounds. Not "quiet" mind you, by any stretch, but quietER. It will be just fine for Coyote out to at least 300, probably 400, yards. There is ammunition that is designed to fragment on impact with anything solid, meaning no ricochets if you miss.

The 204 is very fast but it uses less powder than other similar rounds. Much of the noise of a gun comes from the amount of powder more than the speed.

The 204 has almost literally zero recoil, the crosshairs don't such much as wiggle, not to mention that it has the unbeatable ballistics.

 

[L_Killkenny]

You are on the right track. Rimfires aren't big enough for dedicated coyote hunting. The 5mm may be the exception but it's so rare {only one ammo maker) as to not figure in this.

Either the hornet of the .17 fireball (furball) should be a good option as long as you keep ranges within reason. I've been wanting a furball for a fox gun for some time now.

 

[the_right_reverend]

have to 2nd the .204 Ruger shoots like a laser, handloads group very nice

excellent round for yotes

 

[Magnum Wheel Man]

lots of good choices already mentioned... I'd add 22 Fireball & 5.7 X 28 to the possibles ( 5.7 available in Contender carbine & AR formats )

but easiest to reload would likely be either 221 Fireball or 204 Ruger ( 22 Hornet is not all that bad, & case life & performace increases alot when bumping up to the K Hornet )

17 Fireball is very interestesting as factory brass & ammo are also available... I have a 17 K Hornet, & there are many steps to preping brass, including fire forming, that are skiped with the 17 Fireball ( although my fire form loads shoot just fine, only lacking a few 100 fps ) if I did not already have the 17 K Hornet barrel & had a desire for a 17 caliber, I'd have gone 17 Fireball... BTW... I also have 17 Remington, but unless you are really going to "get into it" I don't recommend that cartridge, the newer / smaller 17's do everything the 17 Remington does, with lots less hastle... the sub 22 calibers are tougher to reload ( more specialized equipment needed to stuff the powder & bullets in the tiny hole... the 5.7 in factory loads is interesting, & reloading in a fixed breach gun is tough but not unbearable, but handloads in 5.7 can be very interesting as well...

if you are concerned about bouncing around bullets down range, the frangible varmint bullets come apart pretty much equally well for the 221 Fireball or Hornet, the 17's probably reduce recochet the best of any

I guess if I were starting from scratch of those choices for use in urban areas, I list like this

221 Fireball
22 Hornet
17 Fireball
5.7 X 28
204 Ruger
17 HMR
17 Hornet
17 Remington
17 Mach 2

BTW... the 204 will do anything you are looking to do, just IMO, it has excessive range & noise about equal to a 223 so for urban areas it might not be muc better than 223

 

[jman841]

What about 7.62 x 39. The bullet is a lil heavy for the amount of powder behind it, range is fairly limited, still be able to kill varmits without a problem, cheap to shoot and easy to find. Plus the trajectory on it is almost a circle .

And an SKS or one of the CZ bolt actions could serve you well if you have one.

Just a suggestion.

 

[stubbicatt]

Coyotes are pretty thin skinned critters, and if you hit them in the boiler room, they die with a 22 long rifle. I'd be reluctant to try the 17's, but that is more my ignorance or prejudice than it is experience.

My experience with the 204 is that it is as loud or louder than 223.

Of the cartridges mentioned, the 22K Hornet would be my choice for the situation you are describing. The K brass lasts longer, and just 'cuz it will shoot faster than an ordinary Hornet doesn't mean it has to. You can always load them down a bit with 2400 powder.

I'd choose the CZ527 FS for my Hornet, were I to get one, and have it opened up to the K.

 

[RamSlammer]

To approach it from an entirely different angle . . . I have a friend in Tennessee with a similar issue with Coyotes. Outskirts of a city - legal to hunt, but folks close in.

We "downloaded" some .357 magnum rounds for his lever gun using 125 gr. Hornady XTP's. Kept working down until the chrono was averaging about 975 fps from his 18" barrel. He has a Puma which is quite heavy and with these mouse fart loads feels like a .22. Also - it's subsonic = quiet . . . real quiet.

Requires some practice to get used to the bullet drop, but he's hitting well out to 100 yards fairly consistently. According to him, it drops the 'yotes in their tracks.

 

[Come and take it.]

.204 Ruger or a .222 and above cartridge.

In the 22 varmint rifles use 50 grain or below Varmint bullets.

.17 HMR is the best for reduced richochet but it is also a bit anemic for a Coyote.

Something like a .204 Ruger or a .220 Swift using 40 to 50 grain bullets is the best bet.

On the quiet thing with large slugs and keeping the chance of Richochet down will be difficult. Lead deforms easy so that a lot of the energy will be dissipated in bullet deformation when it hits the ground or a rock. Lead shouldn't richochet as much as jacketed rounds. But it will richochet.

For low noise a huge ingredient is to have as long a barrel as possible. This will allow all the powder ignition to be spent before the cartridge finishes its travel down the bore. I shoot 22 cb longs in a Ruger 77/22 rifle of mine and they are so quiet that my air rifle is about twice as loud. Thats with a 20 inch barrel. If you had a 28 inch mil training bolt rifle you could shoot 60 grain Aquila SSS rounds so quietly it would be phenomenal.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

My experience with the 204 is that it is as loud or louder than 223.

That must have been a super short barreled 204 or a super long barreled 223. In side by side comparisons with similar guns the 223 sounds like an Abrams main gun compared to the 204, in my experience.

 

[Evan Thomas]

What about 7.62 x 39. ...<snip>...cheap to shoot and easy to find. Plus the trajectory on it is almost a circle

I don't understand. You mean it'll come around like a boomerang and hit you in the butt?

 

[Thermodyne]

Better look and see what the minimum caliber that is allowed in the county you intend to hunt. Here we can only use shot guns. In the western counties rifles are allowed but 243 is the minimum caliber.

IMHO if you are worried about what happens down range if you miss. Then big and slow is what you want. This is were lever guns tend to live. Just get a good scope with some type of range estimate built in then work with it until you know it by heart.

 

[Willie Lowman]

the 223 sounds like an Abrams main gun compared to the 204, in my experience.

...Umm Err.. Well... Exaggerate much, do we?


The .17 HMR is very popular for coyotes here in SE Ah-Hi-Ah. I roll with the .223 but that's cuz I like to pretend that I am a Abrams tank.

 

[L_Killkenny]

The 7.72 x 39 would be a bad choice. The bullets are not designed well or for varmints and ricochets could be an issue. Any caliber from 22-250 on down would do well as lightly constructed bullets are readily available. But if you are really worried about it population or noise I would stick with the .17's or hornet.

I'll also agree with a lever gun in .357. Small, light and handy with plenty of thump on coyotes. Bullets are still constructed heavier than I like but horrible BC helps make up for it.

stubbicatt, coyotes are much tougher than you are giving them credit for. Will the die from a .22LR? Yes. Will they run between 100 and 1000+ yards befor dying? 90% of the time they will. Rimfires are for critters under 20 lbs.

 

[stubbicatt]

stubbicatt, coyotes are much tougher than you are giving them credit for. Will the die from a .22LR? Yes. Will they run between 100 and 1000+ yards befor dying? 90% of the time they will. Rimfires are for critters under 20 lbs.

Guess the coyotes in your neck of the woods are just tougher than here at the foot of the rockies.

--Please note I am not recommending 22 long rifle for this task, only that a 22 through the heart lungs area will drop a coyote pretty much right there, or at least those I've seen hit that way do. I'd prefer a higher velocity number, and that's why I recommended the K Hornet to the original poster.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

The .17 HMR is very popular for coyotes here in SE Ah-Hi-Ah. I roll with the .223 but that's cuz I like to pretend that I am a Abrams tank.

The 17 is a bit small for my comfort, so far as recommending one goes. I have no qualms about shooting a 'yote with one but not knowing the skill level or patience of the OP I prefer to recommend something with more punch.

As for the noise level of the 223, they rattle windows, shake the ground and move leaves on trees several feet laterally from the muzzle. The 204 is loud, yes, but it's not ground shaking loud like most other centerfire high velocity rounds.

 

[Come and take it.]

Eastern Coyotes have some Red Wolf bred into them and are generally larger stock than Western yotes. Keep in mind that Fish and Wildlife actually introduced the Coyote into the Eastern United States and they used them to deliberately breed with Red Wolf populations to add in some genetic material. Once an animal population gets so small there is not enough genetic variance to sustain the population anymore.

I am sure some will contest this, even Fish and Wildlife, but they have been caught toying around with wildlife populations before.

The .17HMR is very unstable against different tissue and the next box of ammo I will get will be 20 grain bullets. When it performs properly it will devastate an animal, if not the animal gets away with a hideous superficial wound.

 

[Scorch]

When it performs properly it will devastate an animal, if not the animal gets away with a hideous superficial wound.

That sounds to me like bullet construction is an issue. You sometimes see that kind of performance issue when someone uses varmint bullets on big game.

Will the die from a .22LR? Yes. Will they run between 100 and 1000+ yards befor dying? 90% of the time they will.

Again, marginal on an animal of that size without good shot placement.