Please explain Project Exile??

sbryce

New member
Hi friends,

I've now seen several heated references to Project Exile mentioned in the context of giving up our rights. It was my limited understanding that Project Exile only applied to people committing a crime, thereby leaving law-abiding citizens alone.

It would appear that my limited understanding needs some expansion. Could someone please explain or direct me to an articulate explanation? I hope to be meeting with my state legislator soon, and if the conversation strays from homeschooling to guns, I would like to know the disadvantages of Project Exile.

Thanks,
Denise
 

ohen cepel

New member
I know the NRA strongly supports project exile and from what I have read and understood it seems like a good program.
Screw up with a gun and get slammed.

However, like most things I'm sure it can get abused and used against honest people at times.
Kind of like the zero tolerance program that is kicking kids out of school for having finger nail clippers.


The NRA home page should have more info. However, it may not be the good hard facts you're looking for.

Good luck with it.

------------------
He who dares wins.
NRA Life Memeber
 

Arrell

New member
I for one am not too keen on Project Exile. One reason is that it gives the Feds. authority over crimes that the individual states have a responsibility to prosecute. I don't want the Federal Gov't. having any more power than they already have, actually I want them less powerful. No, actually I want them to have no power at all. Gun Owners of America don't support Project Exile. Go to their web page and you might be able to find out why. I would also suggest supporting GOA. I'll have to do some research, but it seems to me that Project E violates one or more constitutional ammendments. Someone else might know. www.gunowners.org
Arrell
 

johnwill

New member
In the simplest form, Project Exile just enforces existing laws without any plea bargaining of the gun offense. I have to agree that I'd rather see the states do their own thing, but so far Project Exile has been effective and not affected any law abiding gunowners. I can only hope it continues to be administrated that way...
 

RWK

New member
Project Exile started in Richmond, Virginia, where it is credited with substantially reducing all types of crime, particularly violent felonies. It has now been expanded to the entire Commonwealth of Virginia. In essence, it mandates five years in prison -– no exceptions, no paroles, and no plea bargains –- if you are caught with an ILLEGAL HANDGUN (for example, concealed carry without an approved permit). This is why when one enters Virginia on a major highway one is greeted with a conspicuous “Project Exile” sign indicating the mandatory five-year penitentiary sentence.
 

Menos

New member
Project Exile is a "trojan horse"...now its aimed at the bad guys sort of..... But we all have the RIGHT to carry (bear arms) a handgun anywhere at any time under the Constitution, but this law in Va is unconstitutional..... I am for applying the law so that it does great good , but we must get rid of unconstitutional laws first!

------------------
What part of "INFRINGED" don't they understand?
 

Oatka

New member
I understand that one of the reasons for the Fed intervention was that the BG would be sent to a federal prison in another state, MILES from parents, wives, or homies. Now he had to prove how bad he was all over again, with guys tougher than him.

An encouraging sign was that as things ramped up, the states would make their penalties the same as the Feds and eventually take over the whole thing.

How they would handle shipping the BGs to another state then, I don't know.

It seemed that most of the states either had weak laws or didn't have the judges who would hand down stiff sentences, so Richmond
temporarily partnered up with the Feds.
 

beemerb

Moderator
If it wasn't for the fed intervention in was is basicly states rights I would be all for it.However IMO the federal goverment is getting more and more involved in local law inforcement and that scares the h**l out of me.They abuse the law and the people and I think it is a good start on a police state.
The power to inforce laws should be on the local level not the federal level.

------------------
beemerb
We have a criminal jury system which is superior to any in the world;
and its efficiency is only marred by the difficulty of finding twelve men
every day who don't know anything and can't read.
-Mark Twain
 

johnbt

New member
Yup. But the state asked the Feds to do it and some of them are still complaining about the extra work. Local TV interviews w/ guys hanging on the corner show that they know the deal - you go far, far away from all of the friends and family you would normally find waiting for you in that home-away-from-home called the state correctional system. Yes, there may be better ways. Fine. Meanwhile lock 'em up. I have not read or heard of one "misuse" or even borderline case so far. John, resident of downtown Richmond, Virginia (Formerly one of the top couple of cities on the national per capita murder list.)
 

Herodotus

New member
My understanding of Project Exile as it was concieved and implimented in Richmond. Virginia is that it was a special agreement between the local police department and the local federal prosecutiong attorney to jointly co-operate in prosecuting convicted felons who are violating both state and federal laws against convicted felons possessing or carrying firearms. These already convicted felons who have either already served some minimum sentance or are out on bale or parole are responsible for a large share of violent crime in this country.
It worked like this: The local police have a very good idea of who the convicted felons are in their area who are still engaged in committing crime. They can pick many of these people up on weapons violations just about any time they feel kike it, for many of these people are habitually carring firearms. But if they take them into a State of Virginia Court, the charges are often simply dropped as too minor a charge to worry about in an overcrowded state justice system. Even if prosecuted, it may take over two years to get a conviction, all the while this felon is out on low bail. If a conviction is finally achieved, the sentence is very abbreviated and the felon let out early to boot because of an overcrowded state penetentiary system which needs to "house the worst cases only".
The Federal government, on the other hand, has harsher penalties for this kind of violation, a quicker justic system, higher bailes which keep a lot of down and out low life behind bars from day one, and penetentiary systems that can keep them behind bars for a long time, the full time if thought necessay. But the Feds they have no truely local police forces that know who the trouble makers are and most federal prosecuters thoughout this country are uninterested in what they normally view as a local problem.
So, what the Richmond Police did was bypass their inefective state system and turned these already convicted felons who were caught carrying firearms over to the Federal Prosecutor, who had made a agreement with them to be especially tough and especially diligent in pursuing this kind of case. I worked very, very well, cutting down the number of murders in that City by over 50% in less than two short years.
Now do note:
1. This is a sad commentary on the justice system within the State of Virginia where local police can get better results in reducing violent crime by the simple expedient of bypassing the state court system and co-opertating directly with a sympathetic Federal prosecutor, but it is no doubt typical of the situation in many or most of the states. The same thing could be done between local police and the state district attoneys if the state systems were not so hopelessly inadequate.
2. This tactic requires the joint co-operation of local police and a prosecuting attorney, state or federal, to focus seriously on the problem of already convicted felons roaming the streets of this land fully armed in defiance of all law, state and federal.
3. Many politicans and citizens would like to see this type of program implemented in other places, but it takes real co-operation between police, prosecutors, courts and penetentaries to actually keep violence prone convicted felons behind bars where they belong. It would be very easy for politicans to pass lots of nice sounding laws proclaiming Project Exile type programs the law of the land, but this stands no chance of actually reducing violent crime if the the co-operation between parts of criminal justice system, state or federal, simply is not a reality. As many of you already know, we have plenty of laws against all types of crime already and that the problem lies in enforcement, not in the lack of laws.
4. In addition, there certainly are plenty of cynical politicans like Clinton and Gore and many, many others who would gladely corrupt the basic idea of getting convicted felons who show every indication of ignoring all the laws against their being armed in our midest into something else along the lines of whatever agenda them have. Politicans like Gore and Clinton would no doubt gladly turn this around into a war on law abiding gun owners instead of a war on convicted felons who flagrantly disregard the terms of their release.
5. There is nothing particularly unconstitutional about the Project Exile Program implimented in the City of Richmond, Virginia. Its validity has never been challenged and is unlikely to ever be challanged in a court of law. Whether similar programs could ever be set up in other cities with similar results remains to be seen. It also remains to be seen if this program, which had spetacular initial success in Richmiond, can be maintained in the long run. Remember, the change of a Federal D.A. or City Police Chief to one with a different agenda could sink the whole program in practial reality.
6.Say over and over again "Project Exile was imlimented to remove alrady convicted gun toting felons off our streets for a long, long time" until the idea finally sinks into your brain. Anything else is not Project Exile.
 

labgrade

Member In Memoriam
Sounds like a pissant excuse for poor police work, IMHO.

Why is there any law (state or fed) against the carrying of a concealed weapon, added penalties for committing a crime while in "the possession" (which may be legaly locked up in your car trunk, BTW) of a firearm, etc.?

The mere possession of a firearm is not in itself any violation of any other person's rights or safety. The unwarranted use in the violation of another's rights sure can be.

I say punish when another's rights are violated - other than that - shut up.

If you violate someone's rights, then the cops should be able to investigate & prosecute. Other than that.

Why? Really, oh why?

Pretty simplistic, but why should it be any more difficult than that?
 

labgrade

Member In Memoriam
And of course, even though it may have that sterling record now (doubtful = why would they post the screw-ups?) ....

.... it will be applied to you in the future. They just want you to buy into it against all the "bad guys."

Too, what the hell are the feds playing around with something that should (arguably) be reserved as a state's rights issue?

You give up a little (to appear to be reasonable) liberty in the interest of (arguably) added (right/sure) safety & you will - you will - lose it all.

Simple as that & that's the way it's being done to you.

Lick it up.
 

dZ

New member
so, if they pass a new gun law and you violate it, you are off to jail

say owning a 50bmg rifle...

dZ
 

Jim March

New member
Project Exile is actually a way of "stalling" all Federal gun control legislation. By pressing the idea of enforcing existing law, it makes cries for new laws look stupid.

Long-term, it's bad strategy. Short-term, it's an excellent tactic - by freezing gun control where it is now while builing up a legislature, prez and supremes that can roll the BS back.

Here's the good news: It only applies to Federal laws. If you're in, say, California and get caught with a gun sans permit, that's purely a state law problem and they can't rope you into the Exile system.

What Exile mostly deals with is "felon with gun" and "druggie with drugs and guns together" problems.

The big thing we have to watch out for is use of Exile for "guns on Fed property" problems (post offices, some Fed parks, etc) and "guns too close to a school". Oh, and "former domestic violence offender with a gun". In theory, these are the only common "ordinary gunnie mistakes" that can be roped into Exile. Even Mr. Emerson wasn't dragged into the Exile system.

So far, I haven't heard of a single bust under Exile of these "lesser" types. The school zone ban in particular is on shaky legal ground and they know it. In general, the DAs involved in Exile want to restrict it to "obvious scum" - politically, if it's seen as "roping in ordinary folk" it won't survive politically.

Upshot: it's a useful tool right now, it IS potentially dangerous and bears monitoring but roundly ripping into the NRA for having thunk it up or supporting it is NOT a good idea.

Jim
 

Arrell

New member
Ok, here you go,
The Commonwealths Attorney that decided to go ahead with Project E in Richmond is an anti gunner (admitted), his name escapes me right now. I'm sure he has a hidden agenda. Doe's any member who lives in Calif. want a trip to club Fed. because they now own a felonious assault rifle? What about a Gun Shop owner who accidentally dosen't fill out a space on a stupid form, hey he's committing a crime while in possession of a firearm. I could go on and on. This Project E thing needs to go. I'm tired of hearing the NRA retoricaly state that all thats needed is to enforce exsisting gun laws. Get rid of the exsisting gun laws, I say.
Arrell
 

johnbt

New member
Me shut up? I don't think so. Do away with existing gun laws? Even the one prohibiting convicted violent felons from legal concealed carry? Duh! Give me a break. John (still living the former capital of the Confederacy - you think we really like the Feds, huh?)
 

Andrewh

New member
Though I don't recall the issue, Readers Digest also had an artical on this. At least a year old or more. Some criminal lawyers also tried to fight the use of federal courts by saying it was a violation of state's rights. It was thrown out because the states asked for help. I don't think the prisons were out of state, it was just that they went to the state's federal prison instead of the local one. I too believe that it could be abused, but right now it is doing good, and is enforcing an existing law, not a new one. It has been on the books for years, and is just being applied.
 

Meiji_man

New member
Well if you don't want to the Feds to be going after cases under Exile, Then you better start trying to get your States going after them.
Exile has been very succesful in Virgina and Philadelphia. But it requires actual enforcement of existing laws. I see no reason why these laws couldn't be passed at a state level. And then procecuted at a state level. I know there are those who dislike ANY gun laws, but you will need to have a law on the books to keep guns out of the hand of criminals. You will need a law to keep people from using guns illegaly. You will need a law to keep people from knowingly selling guns to a known criminal. There's three laws right there, (incidently the only three I think one needs). I personaly beleave the reason why the pro-gunners have been losing in the national debate is because of the extremists who are the steriotypical "gun nuts". Their attempt to overthrow any gun laws that percived as "resonable" make the entire gun-lobby look like extremists. Add in a liberal bias press that will only report the "militia" types and it's no wonder people think we're all psycho.

Exile works
Exile is popular
Exile does not mean the passing of new laws
It has my support.




------------------
"Big or Little, it's all the same to a .45
Which comment embraced the full philosophy of the Gunfighter"
R.E. Howard
 

Jim March

New member
Exile is a dangerous yet valuable tool. SO FAR it's not being used for "technical violations of gun law by otherwise non-criminals". I can promise you that the charter is written to deal with "street crime" and almost all the busts SO FAR fall into the "felon with gun" and "druggie with drugs and guns" categories.

It has resulted in radical murder rate reductions when properly supported with media and advertizing efforts. The media link is largely missing in the Oakland, Calif version and they've branched out into "voluntary buybacks" which are useless, annoying but mostly harmless.

If any of the Exile programs "go bad" and start getting used for general gun control instead of street violence, the one in Oakland has the highest likelyhood of doing so. It's being very carefully monitored by "our side".

Jim
 

Arrell

New member
John,
A convicted felon just might be the man who's wife prosecuted him for abuse, that he didn't commit. Or, the hichhiker that catches a ride with a druggie making a delivery, who gets stopped by the police. You could be an instant felon when they make your flavor of firearm illegal. Even prohibiting a felon from owning a firearm is a violation of the constitution. You know...(The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed...). If you are convicted of a felony are you going to give up your firearms? Even felons have the right to self defense, don't they? I have a good friend who did jail time in the '70s for felonious possession of marijuana. Convicted and later pardoned. He still can't buy a gun legally in my state, or own one for that matter. The only firearm law that this country needs is this; It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly and with malice aforethought, use a firearm in the commission of a crime. Period. Who cares where he got the gun. Who cares who sold it to him.
Arrell
 
Top