Plated bullets

[torquewrench]

I saw that plated .40 S&W bullets for a good price. Anyone use plated bullets. most review are good but there are a few that stated difficulties seating and crimping. I am looking for a low cost target bullet for my Beretta 40.

 

[Artover3]

I just started loading 40s&w and bought 1000 x-treme plated bullets from tjconvera. Seemed to me the price was less than fmj. So this is the best way to go for me. As for crimping, I have the lee dies. Not much experience with 'em yet, but dosen't look like a problem. Just a slight crimp, don't let the crimp bite into the bullet. Keep reading the posts and gather info.

 

[flyboyjake]

plated is great. I have shot rainier and berrys. both are quite consistent, and the price is right. The manufactures tell you to keep loads under 1000-1200 fps to ensure the thin plating stays intact. There is no canalure and you should avoid crimping them at all. The plating is very thin, and a crimp can cut a weak spot which separates the plating upon firing. I shoot 180gr plated from a 40sw to keep the speeds down.

 

[Ozzieman]

I have only tried plated bullets once in 9mm. Berry’s, they worked very well and I had no problem.
Berry’s has 40 for $120 per 1000, I really don’t see an advantage over lead and lead price advantage overcomes any advantage that plated has.
The site below has 40’s for $76 per 1000. Although I have never loaded there 40. I have shot his 9mm out of a carbine at over 1200 fps and they worked very well.
My Beretta Cougar and Storm carbine really works with these same bullets in 9mm from Penn.

http://www.pennbullets.com/40/40-caliber.html

crimping, Get a taper crimp die and you wont have any problems.

 

[Shane Tuttle]

I went back to FMJ since Rainiers wrinkle too easily and Berry's became so proud of their bullets. Besides, FMJ is just as inexpensive...

 

[Artover3]

My x-tremes were $95 per 1000. Is fmj that cheap? Some where on this forum someone said the x-tremes had the thickest plating. I haven't shot but a few rounds so far.

 

[Shane Tuttle]

Pretty darn close...

http://precisiondelta.com/detail.php?sku=B-40-165-FMJ

$108/1000 SHIPPED. $13 is a small price to pay for no hiccups during the reloading process.

Berry's is $110/1000...

http://berrysmfg.com/product-i14497-c14-g8-b0-p0-.40_Cal_165gr_FP.aspx

 

[COSteve]

I shoot a ton of plated bullets in my 30carb, 38spl, 357mag, 40cal, 45acp, and 10mm. I've found Berry's to be great once you understand how to reload with them (it ain't hard; don't over crimp and bell enough to avoid shaving the plating).

As to price, check out TJ Conevera's. He's got terrific prices on Berry's that are down there with many companies lead bullets but without the barrel mess.

 

[farmerboy]

Great prices Tuttle, Ive also shot a ton of Rainier and Berrys and agree with you 100%. I will def. give them a try when reordering...

 

[torquewrench]

Great info!! Thanks everyone. Shane, thanks for the link - great prices...

 

[Sevens]

I went back to FMJ since Rainiers wrinkle too easily and Berry's became so proud of their bullets. Besides, FMJ is just as inexpensive...

I will take issue with Shane Tuttle's assertion that jacketed is as cheap as plated. He did offer a link to Precision Delta and I agree that those are cheap -- in fact, I use them, I buy their .40 cal 180 grain FMJ and use them exclusively in 10mm. Where I have a problem is that Precision Delta is not the answer for all your bullet needs. In some cases, they can be as cheap as plated, or similar in price.

That comes with restrictions. First is that you must order at least 2,000 bullets. Not a problem for those of us purchasing in volume. But that is a real problem for folks who just want to try them. You can grab Berry's in a 250-count box and give them a twirl. The next restriction is that Precision Delta isn't the quickest place to deal with -- far from it, actually, in my experience. And the customer service (while not horrible) leaves a lot to be desired.

Also... you get three different weights of 9mm, one .45, three .40s and that is the sum total of your choices in jacketed from Precision Delta. And as far as I can tell, there exists only one other true jacketed source for such prices -- Rose Distributing and Zero bullets, and half of their selection has been sold out since the 2008 Presidential election. I'd love to try their 158 grain .357" JSP, but no dice. It's missing in action for more than two years, best as I can tell.

For my plated/jacketed needs in .380, .38/.357, .40 S&W and 200 grain .45's, there is no jacketed source that is anywhere near in price to bulk Berry's bullets. And nobody makes a jacketed .30 cal carbine bullet for affordable dollars.

I really don’t see an advantage over lead and lead price advantage overcomes any advantage that plated has.

I will also take issue with this... In the winter, the three different indoor ranges I frequent will not allow my cast lead bullets in any way, shape or form. So it's plated or jacketed or I don't get to shoot. Furthermore, I have less barrel fouling and less lube smoke & filth to clean off all my handguns when I'm using plated rather than lead bullets.

Berry's .45 cal Plated semi-wadcutter is a tack driving bullet in both of my .45 pistols. And their .30 Carb bullet is rated to 1,900 FPS and I've been shooting it at 100 yards from a 7.5" barrel Blackhawk with great success. We've put thousands of them through an array of .380 pistols without all the fouling and filth and smoke of vast lead in those finicky, tiny little pistols.

Make no mistake, I love loading and shooting cast lead. I use it exclusively outdoors in 9, .38 and .45 during the warmer months when I'm shooting outside. I even dabble a bit in 10mm with lead.

But I wouldn't ever give up the Berry's plated bullets I'm using across the board. And the last time I took my load with 125gr Berry's Pl-RN 9mm up against my Precision Delta 124gr JHP (which is what they had to send me instead when they ran out of FMJ and had no idea when they would get more in, which delayed my order for .40 cal for a month), the Berry's out shot the P-D bullets by a wide, wide margin in two of my 9mm pistols. This was two weeks ago on an indoor range when the temperature outside was below freezing.

Berry's plated bullets may not be for everyone, but these bullets are a huge, huge part of my bench and I wouldn't give 'em up and with my loads out of my handguns, I'd put them up against jacketed bullets with no fear whatsoever.

 

[BigJimP]

Based on my local prices on Rainier Ballistics and Berry's - Montana Gold is cheaper for a true jacketed bullet, if you order them in 3 case lots. Montana gold pays the shipping and you don't pay sales tax - which is almost 10% in my area on Rainier.

Plated bullets are fine / not great... as long as you keep them under 1200 fps. But you will also find on a plated bullet, especially Rainier maybe as much as an 8 - 10 grain swing in the weight on a 180gr bullet ....and that's quite a bit. But their electro plating process at Rainier is hard to hold much tighter tolerances than that. Berry's are more consistent / especially the double struck versions ... Montana Gold is a much better product / very consistent / a true jacketed bullet.

I've shot a lot of Rainier and Berry's in 9mm, .40S&W and .45acp - and .38 spl and .357 mag.... I tried Rainier in .44 mag ...and the plating was fracturing as the round left the barrel ( and it wasn't the timing on the gun ..) ....and sometimes on a plated bullet, I'll notice an extra hole in the target ( you fired 12 rounds ) but you have some odd looking tears in the paper ...( bullet plating is coming apart ..) ...in my opinion.

 

[Sevens]

Oh, just wanted to add something about Precision Delta and my assertion that they don't deliver as well as *COUGH* some other bullet makers.

Ran in to a buddy today and he told me that he recently ordered from P-D and he got half his order. It seems they sent him the .45 hardball he ordered, but the 124 grain FMJ 9mm doesn't seem to be in stock. I asked him about the 115 grain FMJ and he said, "they wouldn't even let me order those!"

P-D has a problem delivering 9mm. They sure did with my order.

I guess when I next punch 'em up, it'll be for two thousand .40 cal and no 9mm.

 

[Ozzieman]

I frequent will not allow my cast lead bullets in any way
I agree, that's a good reason to use plated, but once they stop allowing lead the next step is NO RELOADS at your range.
The indoor range where I shoot 2 years ago went to no lead and early this winter went with the NO reloads. I’m sure that within a year or two, you will have to buy ammo and targets and probably the gun there to shoot there.
It is they who own the range, I only rent there.
I shoot jacketed there. I just load up several factory boxes with jacketed reloads and shoot.

 

[Sevens]

Yeah, if they went that route, I would put my handloads in to factory boxes. I've got plenty of those laying around from the guys I know who funnel all their brass to me.

I don't think this range is going to ban handloads... it's their air handlers that can't take the lead. Frankly, I don't know many indoor ranges that do accept lead bullet ammo anymore.

 

[Shane Tuttle]

Valid points, Sevens. But here's where I must provide my counterpoints:

1. I haven't had the problems you have with Precision Delta. I'm glad you posted your say because just because I had good service doesn't mean they do across the board.

2. One of the reasons why they have lag time (just like Zero and the others you mentioned) is demand. If a consumer wants the cheapest price on a product from a small company, chances are you will be waiting. That's just the way it is sometimes.

You can grab Berry's in a 250-count box and give them a twirl.

3. Whoa, whoa, whoa! Quite the sleight of hand, don't you think? That's fine and dandy.....UNTIL you add in shipping.

For my plated/jacketed needs in .380, .38/.357, .40 S&W and 200 grain .45's, there is no jacketed source that is anywhere near in price to bulk Berry's bullets.

4. As I see your point, you must also see that your normal practice of buying in bulk just like most reloaders isn't giving you total allowance to complain about having to order at least 2k bullets from PD.

5. Your experience with accuracy, or lack thereof, with PD bullets compared to Berry's is the first I heard. I'm not doubting your claim. But different guns' characteristics, reloading recipe, and the shooter him/herself can play a role. Part of point #1 as well...

6. The OP was merely stating what would be a low cost bullet for target (I translated as for plinking). I'm thinking a bullet that's relatively concentric, within advertised weight, and dimensions are consistent enough to reload safely is "good enough for government work". Not many other requirements...

I shoot a ton of plated bullets in my 30carb, 38spl, 357mag, 40cal, 45acp, and 10mm. I've found Berry's to be great once you understand how to reload with them (it ain't hard; don't over crimp and bell enough to avoid shaving the plating).

That's the crux of why I don't like plated bullets...especially from Rainier. You have to bell more than normal. That means more wear and tear on brass. Even if I do, it always seems to happen. The wrinkling scenario. I jacks up my operation and it's yet another bullet to pull and throw away. Not worth the headache.

 

[engineermike]

I shoot plated bullets and find them worth the price. Don't overload or they my keyhole on you. My wife won't let me play with lead, but I'm pretty sure that copper is just as lethal as a heavy metal. Anyway buy them and shoot them I've had no problems. I to purchased mine fromhttp://www.tjconevera.com/
and fine the price within my budget.

Mike

 

[Sevens]

All great counter points, Shane, and placed so eloquently that it's hard to re-counter! I think what drew me in to this minor standoff is when you said that they are "just as expensive as FMJ" and for my needs, they just aren't. Not at all, for all those reasons I stated.

And you got me with the 250-count Berry's box... except that my first 250 count box of Berry's came from Cabela's. Per bullet, most likely cost more than P-D. But bottom line is that you can start with a 250 box of Berry's, but you must start with at least a thousand of P-D, and that would be a thousand in two different flavors because they don't ship less than two thousand on any order. That's a true commitment to a bullet. You've either got to rely on someone else's experience with the product or you are spending minimum $150 to even try a Precision Delta bullet. And that price is for the 115gr 9mm, which it sounds like nobody gets!

And not to make this debate last for an eternity, but I haven't yet wrinkled a plated bullet. I cut the plating on one once with too much roll crimp -- but I did that on purpose so I knew what my limits were. I don't bell the case any more for plated over jacketed. Honestly, mouth flaring is something I don't adjust -- I use the same exact flare for cast lead, plated and jacketed, and I load thousands of all of them. In .38 and .45, I load cast lead and plated. In .357, I load plated and jacketed. In 10mm, I load cast lead and jacketed. And in all of them, I don't adjust my flare die and I haven't adjusted them in years.

Your point #5 is a very good one, and I will offer up this much-- I guess what I expected with the 124gr JHP is that they would out-shoot my Berry's 125gr Pl-RN and they didn't. They fell behind. That could change in different platforms (I only tried them in two different pistols) and with some load tweaking, so it wasn't really fair that I even mentioned it.

I suppose I really just expected true jacketed bullets to outshoot my cheap plated bullets right off the hop and that didn't happen.

I wholly retract any comments toward the accuracy of P-D bullets -- especially when I note that my 180 grain .40 cal FMJ from Precision Delta (as butt-ugly as they are to look at) make for some dandy shootin' 10mm rounds with Power Pistol that make my G29 run like a freight train!

 

[torquewrench]

This forum is awesome!!

Thanks for all the information. I picked up a box of 250 Berry .40 cal 180 grain flat nose yesterday. I seated and taper crimped 20 rounds. Everything looked ok so far. I fabricated an adapter to my press lever for my torque wrench. I taper crimp at 20 to 25 lbs setting. I found the Berry setting to be best at 22lbs. I am using Power Pistol powder. Starting powder 6 grains and max load is 6.7 grains. Tight range.. I will load 5 rounds at 6 grains, 5 rounds at 5.5 grains, and 5 rounds at 5 grains. Test shooting sometime this week. I am going to order the 1000 rounds of FMJ at P D Website and monitor differences in reloading process. Also.. I spoke to a couple of competitive shooters at the range yesterday (not pros.... recreational... so they pay for all their own supplies) They both told me that they reload lead bullets for practice. They told me that by the time the I would experience problems from lead bullets, I would have saved enough in bullet cost to buy a new gun. I am going to look into that claim a little deeper....

 

[Sevens]

I am going to order the 1000 rounds of FMJ at P D Website and monitor differences in reloading process.

No, you'll order 2,000 rounds from P-D, as that is their minimum. If you want the bullets to arrive, don't buy any 9mm or it may hold up your order.

A lot of us shoot cast lead. I shoot a heap of it. But there are pitfalls associated with loading and shooting cast lead that aren't insurmountable, but were I you, I'd stick with jacketed and plated and get rolling and confident with that before you throw a wrench in the works (even a torque wrench! ) with playing around with cast lead. Consider it your next step in the learning process if you will.